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In Reply to: Replacing Cary Transformers with Plitron (or other superior x-formers) posted by Dave Brown on November 29, 1999 at 05:49:19:
What kind of 6SN7 is it?I was thinking of doing the same thing(swapping out transformers in my Cary PP amp).But I think I want to get a phase splitter transformer type(tamura?).Or maybe that won't work.Any ideas?
What you are proposing is an extensive overhaul of the amp. For what new OPT's cost, I would consider building a new amp.
First, on the PP amp and use of a transformer as pahse splitter. Unless the amp is so designed (and for cost considerations I doubt it, using an interstage transformeras a phase splitter prior to the output stage involves complete redisgn of the amp, including the power supply.Second, while I do not think that Cary's SE OPTs are close to the best, replacement may involve more than just a drop-in. You need to know the specs on the existing trannies - primary Z, power rating - and if this is one of the Cary designs that allows you to change the secondary Z with the flip of a switch, you'll need the schematic.
You'll also need the schematic to determine how the plate of the output is loaded and how the output tube is biased. It's likely that the B+ is fed through thr OPT's primary, so you'll need to know what the B+ voltage is to determine whether the power rating of your chosen replacement is sufficient for the current draw of the output tube. Finally, you'll need to choose a replacement OPT that will fit in the existing layout unless you want to do some metal work.
Realize that you may significantly affect the resale value of the amps. Unless you are very good at this sort of thing or don't ever intend to resell, I would sell the Carys and and move to a SET manufacturer that uses higher quality OPTs - Wavelength, Electronic Tonalities, Welborne Labs, Sun Audio, Moth, Aprilsound, to name a few.
Phil,Best advice yet.
The easiest way to kill the resale value of anything is to perform modifications on it yourself. I personally won't even consider the purchase of a component that a 'hobbyist' has modified. The first question that always crops to my mind in such an instance is "why are they selling it? They probably botched the mod".
Seconding your advice, sell the amp for the best dollar possible, and buy something with a better OPT. But keep in mind that the OPT is only a part of the total equation. Just as inferior OPT's can kill the sound, a poor design or implementation using great OPT's can be as bad or worse.
Bill C
couldn't agree more. You can dump in all the boutique parts you want, but if the basic circuit is not well thought out and implemeted, all you've got is a crappy amp dressed up like Mrs Astor's pet pony.
The 6SN7's are some Sylvania WGT's that I picked up. Both channels are microphonic, one more than the other. I mainly want to swap trannies because for better sonics -- I know how important the tranny is in a SE design and I've heard that Cary's aren't the best. As for a phase splitter type, I have no idea, but I'm open to any and all suggestions.
that the sonic differences between transformers are not all that great.I have a Cary 805 Signature and its sound does not appear to be suffering in the least.
As a guy who is not a trust fund baby, is considerably older than 25, is a designer, has heard a lot of transformers and also sells a fair number of transformers, (and spends his disposable income on sensible things like rifles), I can tell you that I can hear quite a difference between brands and models of output transformers.
I can also tell you of a fellow who just converted his 805Cs to parafeed with nickel OT's I loaned him, and he liked them enough to ask for a pair for Xmas.The differences one should listen for in transformers are not that closely related to bandwidth specs. Many factors in the construction influence the sound - the winding scheme, the quality of materials (lamination materials insulating materials, wire), the core size, etc., etc. And some of these can affect the sound in ways which are not measurable in a simple frequency response test, insulating materials, lam materials and wire type among them.
I would caution one to question those who claim "everything sounds the same". Question the resolution of both their system and their ears.
just that there are many other factors that influence the sound of an amp and that the use of a supposed "inferior" output transformer wouldn't necessarily result in significantly inferior sound.
I'm no designer, but I know what I hear when I compare my 805B Signatures to Fi 2A3 monoblocks and Moth 2A3 amps. If the 805's output transformers are so "terrible," the 805 should suffer. It doesn't.
So how did the Moth and Fi's compare to the Cary? Were the same speakers used? This is a very interesting comparison.3 watts vs. 50. Was either able to do one thing better then the next?
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Get some professional help, before it's too late.
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