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Hey guys wondering if you have experimented with paralleling same value K40Y-9 capacitors? for signal level, I really need 1uf and have 30 .47
good?
Bad?
Thanks
Lawrence
Follow Ups:
Lowering the ESR of filter caps in PSUs is regarded as a good idea. Why?
Paralleling signal caps is unnecessary. IMO a mixture of types in valve circuit sounds better, and NFB (shock horror NFB!!!!!) caps should be the best you can afford, say commercial MF teflons.
I'm never going to use PIOs, burp, fart, banggg, was my one experience,and it was enough. PCBs are another reason.
LBNL I'm not into tone controls, except the tilt types in pre-amps which make sense, and work well to boot.
:-)
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
I was looking at the Wikipedia article on film caps and it states -
'A key advantage of modern film capacitor internal construction is direct contact to the electrodes on both ends of the winding. This contact keeps all current paths to the entire electrode very short. The setup behaves like a large number of individual capacitors connected in parallel, thus reducing the internal ohmic losses (ESR) and the parasitic inductance (ESL). The inherent geometry of film capacitor structure results in very low ohmic losses and a very low parasitic inductance, which makes them especially suitable for applications with very high surge currents (snubbers) and for AC power applications, or for applications at higher frequencies.'
ray
~!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
I had forgotten all that.
BSBBrains, eh?
Warmest
Tim Bailey
Skeptical Measurer & Audio Scrounger
and i am not one, the signal would be divided and reformed at the other end. But in real world terms of millionths or billionths of a second, does that really matter?
Doesn't the signal have to "see" the two 0.47uF capacitors in parallel as ONE capacitance, with a net value approaching 1uF? There's no mechanism for splitting the signal that I can fathom.
Some of it goes in 1 cap and some of it goes into the other. How else it would they end up on the other side? So, instead of the signal encountering all the connections for going thru 1 cap It now goes thru twice as many because it has to go thru 2 caps. I think that would be a "purists" POV.
"It now goes thru twice as many..."
Two connections in parallel have half the resistance. :)
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I would imagine it would be like a river that splits into 2 branches and forms up again further downstream. How else could that happen? I dont know the physics. Is there some other mechanism?
I think we're getting deep into theory here, and I have no training in this area, but my conception is that ALL of the signal goes through both capacitors, since the two capacitors are connected at both ends. True, in the real world, there will inevitably be tiny differences between any two of even the most closely matched capacitors; in my thesis the signal that emerges contains the average of the deviations from ideal manifest in each capacitor if taken separately. So, the same "problem" of paralleling capacitors still applies, whether you think of it my way or your way. Of course, there probably is a "right way", too.
In your thesis, what would make the signal divide? (I ask this for fun only, not because I know for sure.) Here's a thought experiment: If the signal were to divide, what happens to the voltage and current that characterize it?
The voltage potential is the same but half of the current flows through one cap and the other half of the current flows through the other cap.
So in theory the ESR is cut in half vs. one cap.
"...the signal that emerges contains the average of the deviations from ideal manifest in each capacitor if taken separately"
Yes.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
But this, I think, is a case where the water analogy falls apart. I don't think you could in theory put your finger on one electron and say that this one went through capacitor A and that one went through capacitor B. All the signal goes through both capacitors, is how I think of it. In fact, one might support that position by the observation that the capacitors in parallel provide a net additive capacitance across the whole signal. Somehow, the signal is in both capacitors at once.
"I don't think you could in theory put your finger on one electron and say that this one went through capacitor A and that one went through capacitor B."
And just to add another bit of fun to the discussion, electrons don't actually pass through the capacitor at all; that is to say they don't cross between the plates of the capacitor.
Chris
but I couldn't think of a better "unit of audio signal".
"but I couldn't think of a better "unit of audio signal"."
I know, and it was really just pure pedantry, but I couldn't resist!
Think of 2 resistors in parallel.Capacitors have reactance so that at any given frequency each cap has a reactance value.
The two caps in parallel will have one half of that reactance value just like 2 (equal value) resistors in parallel will have one half the value of one.
I don't see the water analogy falling apart but yes, the signal is in both capacitors at once but one cap is carrying half the current and the other cap is carrying the other half of the current.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 04/12/17
Can't know both position of particle (electron) and momentum (energy, frequency), at the same time.Some dude name Heisenberg figured that out in the 1920s.
8^)
Edits: 04/12/17
While we may not be able to pin down individual electrons, statistically, the net effects are quite predictable.
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
And due to physical variations beyond the control of the installer, it's likely there will be a phase difference of at least 1/billionth of a degree between the two signals. That's sure to ruin the sound. :)
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I am contemplating the difference between 7.2hz cutoff compaired to 3.3hzThis is on the output of a tuner
Edits: 04/11/17
It looks messy, but it works and sounds just fine. No problem with this technique in my book.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
TK not a technical question but a subjectional question
Yes, I understand it's a subjective question. Like I said, there's no downside to this from any perspective - it will work and sound fine.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Paralleled pairs of 0.47 μF. K40s will be fine. "Smearing" may be an issue, when a big cap. is bypassed by a smaller part and the dielectrics are different.
Guess why I advocate bypassing large valued metalized polypropylene signal caps. with 10% 716P series "orange drops". ;> )
Eli D.
There is no negative "subjectional" impact from this that I have ever heard.
However, if you are looking for negative opinions I am sure there are many who will play with claims of "parallel ghosting" causing "smearing" and such.
I have recently tried different types of small bypass caps in my speaker crossovers, and they do sound different. But paralleling K40Y-9s is what I frequently do, as I have a load of 470nF.
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