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In Reply to: RE: I'm not following you! posted by TomWh on March 22, 2017 at 20:59:24
"Tre you really think I can not follow the bullshit distortion argument."
I'm a little confused.
You understand all about load lines and spacing between grid lines along the load line and how and why that creates harmonic distortion?
If you follow all that then please explain why you call it bullshit?
BTW My commit about you was only in reference to this one statement, not all the rest of what you and gusser might be talking about.
"There are known distortions and their sonic signature can be identified. And those distortions can easily be predicted in simulation today. So if simulation says a 300B has X distortion at said operating points, building the circuit will prove it does"
As soon as you convincingly explain to me how calculating the HD based on plate curves, operating points and load lines is BS, I will see that I was wrong.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 03/24/17Follow Ups:
I only reason I got involved in this mad hatter tea party was Gusser comes on a DIY tube forum and tell us poor naive souls we can not hear only his machines can. Then if we state we can he sites the old tired DBT. Again assuming, I for one, have no formal training in research.
I have no problem with using distortion as one of the variables on our quest for the holy grail. I have a lot of Crowhurst literature. I have plotted more than one load line in my day. I problem I have run into this a lot, the math solutions and theory do not match what I am hearing. Weather it be ccs's cathode followers, a simple cap or resistor that may not be needed etc...
So many others and my self have concluded base on real life experiences that If it can measure good sound bad or measure bad sound good, we must be measuring the wrong thing. This would imply we maybe do not KNOW all the variables. This does mean your load lines and homogeneous spacings on your tube curves are not a tool you want in your tool box.
I will not insult you with reasons why things sound the way they do because I think there are far to many variables known and unknown to go there. What I will tell you is most the commercial stuff is just plain bad. Even at a high end shows if 10% was worth listening to you would be lucky. My only explanation is people who design this can not hear or money get it out the door etc... Also it may be the market demands loud and bright and corporate America is feeding its appetite.
If you go back just thru Gusser posts on this thread he tells us that he can put together as good as any thing just with the numbers. So I asked him to show me the numbers the machines would pick up to show me how a 2a3 vs 300b vs 845 vs kt88 vs 6550 vs el34 etc... All sound different. And different makes of the same tube sound different. So if the tube curves will give us this information then we should know how the 300b sounds different than a 2a3 etc...
Tre ours tastes, in music reproduction, may be a little different. But I bet we get where we want to go when we sit down and listen Oscar plays that grand piano and we think for a moment he is there. You have always been a asset to this forum and try to help. Others want to play alpha dog games. I admit I took bait. So now I am off to build another 3 phase motor controller for the big motor for the big platter with a big bearing.
Enjoy the ride
"... tell us poor naive souls we can not hear only his machines can. Then if we state we can he sites the old tired DBT."
Sorry, but why do you say "old tired"? It is old, certainly, in that it is part of the standard kind of procedure that has long been used in many areas of investigation where one has to disentangle observer expectations and biases, and in areas where the human senses and mind may be misled in all kinds of subtle ways.
It is maybe an inconvenient truth that humans are much less able to discriminate between subtle differences under double-blind conditions than some people would like to believe. But pretending that these failures can all be put down to some inadequacy in the DBT setup, and pretending that the differences really are audible even when neither the DB tests nor measurements combined with general understandings of audibility thresholds support the idea that they are audible, is really just burying one's head in the sand.
The denigration of the DBT methods by those who want to live in a fantasy world in which every inch of wire is audible could indeed be called an "old tired" reaction. But there is nothing "tired" about the DBT method itself.
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