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In Reply to: RE: Do russian teflon capacitors lack musicality? posted by vbenonisen on February 15, 2017 at 13:59:47
First I want to say that I found the Russian K72 teflons to be mechanical sounding but not the FT2 and the FT3 Russian Teflons. The biggest problem with certain capacitors is their misuse in places where they could sound much better somewhere else.I was taught this from Jim McShane and Eli Duttman a long time ago,along with mixing cap types to get the best sonic flavor.
The teflon capacitor needs a long break in time. They do well when they are mixed with other capacitor types in the earlier stages of the circuit. Teflon capacitors are similar to paper and oil in that they love higher DC voltages across the dielectric because that aids with breaking in the capacitor.The more the teflon or paper in oil cap breaks in,the better it sounds.
We sometimes tend to stereotype things,due to past prejudice or heresay from others.We are all guilty of this at one time or another.
Keep in mind that the Russian capacitors we buy,are bought at surplus prices.If a .47uf at 200v FT2 was manufactured today,it would cost as much or more than the V-cap teflon because of its size and quality of materials used.This is why these capacitor shootouts don't always present an accurate picture because Russian caps are not going to generate advertising revenue for the publications as say, Auri-cap or V-cap would.
So to answer your question,Russian teflons are musical if you use the FT2 and FT3 types and give them time. I prefer the paper in oil K40y and Vitamin Q types overall,but not solely.I like the mix.
The only new production teflon caps I would even consider,are the Sonic-cap Plats. They are a teflon cap that was able to take the best sonic attributes of teflon caps and paper in oil caps, and somehow combine the two.If they were cheaper,I would buy a lot more of them.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Follow Ups:
Used by themselves as output Caps they have an uptilted frequency balance; overly bright and detailed. That's a good quality for coupling caps, though, and where I've successfully used them.
Used in parallel with the frequency range limited (read "musical-sounding") Auricaps as Output Caps for an update of the simple George Wright pre-amp circuit they created a balanced result.
As far as throwing money around, everything matters: wire, caps, resistors, connectors, they all change the sound of the component. Some changes you have to listen so hard for though, the effort becomes the result. Et Tu, Heisenberg?
Each time I've gone way upmarket for something I can't build, like a phono cartridge, CD Player, or Cables, careful choices have been rewarded with results not found at lower price points. The "Giant Killer" category is mostly wishful thinking. The same is true for DIY parts that match the circuit .
Whether or not the changes are positive are up to the listener and listeners have varying perceptions, which is why this debate over what can be heard will never be resolved and there are so many brands, for example, of speakers at the same price point. Often, though, changes in parts go beyond nuances to quibble over IME, like a Darwin Inter-connect or Duelund CAST resistors, the former modestly priced but far more costly than DIY, the latter requiring a ridiculous $$$ outlay for a resistor but worth every penny.
I've been building for, listening to and making music for more than 60 years which doesn't make me an expert, just old. It does give me a certain perspective though.
I use them in my McShaned Eico HF-87 and they fantastic as output couplers.
The amp only has the output couplers and one decoupler per channel.The FT2s and FT3s do wonders for EL34 amps that are on the soft side.It does take time to balance out but they are fantastic when they do.
Here is another thing that wasn't mentioned. With the Russian teflons,you put your own leads on them and I use stranded silver plated wire. I also use them in the larger Sherwood S-5000. Synergy definitely comes into play with these caps.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
That the teflons love higher DC voltages is very interesting. When I think about my "trials and tribulations" I have always used them in low voltage setups. Maybe they just need more burn in time, let's say 1000 hours rather than 100. Thank you for the tip. I will investigate.
Hi Mikey,
I can't speak to your reference to the SoniCaps (very little experience), but I totally agree with all that you posted about the Russian caps! You hit the price thing right on the head too - how much would a mil-spec Teflon cap with a metal shell and hermetic sealing go for if it had just been made?
Thanks for the post!
If you had your 'druthers, would you want a metal shell? I always assumed that the metal shell was a net negative and could have something to do with a sonic coloration that I think I hear. (I hasten to say, "I think".) I wonder whether sser's idea of grounding the case to the outer foil would make a positive difference in sound. But then, you have to identify the outer foil, which I found to be difficult to do with the outer metal case getting in the way.
I have encountered no problems related to the metal shield/can at all Lew. I've soldered ground leads to the shell and listened to the caps with the shells both grounded and not grounded. I can't hear any difference. I find no audible difference based on the orientation/outer foil location of the cap.
Most of these observations were done with the caps installed in a "McShaned" Citation II amp and in some other vintage gear.
So in the circuits I deal with I'm not bothered by the shell at all. And I am VERY pleased with the sonics. My friend and Grammy Award winning jazz bassist Phil Palombi has a Citation II amp I built for him that uses K40 coupling caps. The K40 shells are ungrounded BTW. He says it's the best amp he's ever heard - and he has incredible ears. My own opinion of the amp's sound is equally high.
That's my $0.02 worth anyway!
nt
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