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In Reply to: RE: Solid vs Stranded wire posted by Neff on April 07, 2011 at 16:17:07
Neff
I use solid core everywhere.
Preferably OCC.
The more wire I replaced with solid core
the more whole the music sounded.
Stranded sounds like it was seperated
and then put together again IMO.
DanL
Follow Ups:
DanL,
You surprise me! I didn't think you were in to the wire thing!Ha! Ha!
Paul
AC on wire has a skin effect in that the current flows on the outside of the wire and more pronounced as frequency goes up. Stranded wire may cause multiple skin effects and may actually jump around perhaps causing some small but noticible distortion. But, I have no way of measuring that.
"Stranded wire may cause multiple skin effects and may actually jump around perhaps causing some small but noticible distortion."
This is no more a real phenomenon than Morse code from Mars.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
there are quite a few cable sellers that speak of the so called diode effect between strands. Unless there is science behind it. It is just anecdotal.That said. I also avoid multistranded wire like the plague. Unless it is litz. But I don't do that because I have actually a/b it. I once changed a run of stranded speaker cable with solid core and since then I've just gone solid core. So I do a lot of things without scientific basis or semi-scientific. Such as choke input. Non magnetic parts as much as possible. That's about it.
(Edit) Fixed the plague spelling.
To infinity and beyond!!!
Edits: 04/09/11
Oxidation is the problem with stranded wire. The oxide layer that form on the surface of the wire is not as conductive as the base metal. Cuprous Oxide is a semi-conductor and was actually used in primitive solid-state rectifiers. Most metal oxides are dielectrics, and therefore insulate. Hence the problem with aluminum wire in house wiring, where due to wire oxidation, the conductive area at a connector shrinks to the point where there is a high resistive drop with current, which heats up the connection to the point of igniting a fire. Therefore, if you use stranded wire, a non-airtight crimp connection can result in a reduced conductivity as the strands oxidize over time.
Dental plaque is a biofilm, usually colorless, that develops naturally on the teeth.Plague is caused by the organism Yersinia pestis
Both should be avoided like the... you know.
Edits: 04/08/11
.
To infinity and beyond!!!
is also the result of the focal death of cells in a tissue culture monolayer resulting from the spread of an infectious virus from cell to cell, originating from virus infecting a single cell at the center of the focus, under a layer of agarose. I just had to say that.
Bas
"I also avoid multistranded wire like the plaque."
Because you and most everybody else know it sounds bad.
The only ones that don't know it are the ones that
scream loudly with their fingers in their ears -
"There Is No Scientific Evidence To Prove That!!!"
So they contentedly go out and buy zip cord
for their speaker wire and proclaim it's great.
DanL
Dan, I think you are reaching conclusions not supported by the evidence. I bet if you took that zip cord and had solid wire installed inside it, it still wouldn't sound as good as other options.
Russ
I had Z-3 Monster speaker cables.
I tried Radio Shack 18ga solid core wire.
I much preferred the Radio Shack wire.
I then tried the NeoTech OCC wire and
heard further improvement.
I tried both the teflon and PVC jacket.
Each had an appeal but I found that if I
used one on the (+) and one for the (-)
they complimented each other quite well.
Is that enough evidence for you?
DanL
So Dan - you are saying then that the people who own Citation II amps that I rebuilt with some stranded wire and who LOVE the tone are all in denial - that those amps really sound bad??
That's what your pronouncement seems to say - at least to me.
BTW - the wire leads from the Citation II output trafos - stranded. And we ALL know how bad they sound.
Mr. McShane, your rebuilds are, by all accounts superb. I trust your tube information implicitly. (I read you even like puppies). But your argument doesn't hold water.
Just because the Citation II transformers sound great doesn't mean they wouldn't be better with solid core or Litz wiring. Same with your rebuilds.
From a transformer manufacturing standpoint, either would be impractical, solid core for flexibility issues and Litz for time of manufacturing (termination) issues.
But I certainly do agree on the basic quality of lots of things we buy that don't follow the "rules".
Stuart
WHOA! Don't touch that!
Hi Stuart,Dan said "sounds bad" in his earlier post - that's what I was addressing. So yes indeed my statement does hold water when applied to that particular statement - at least in my humble opinion.
I refuse to generalize regarding wire - or ALMOST anything else in judging sonics. There are exceptions to nearly every rule, and in many cases compelling cases can be made on both sides of an argument. Just FYI - I use both solid and stranded, and even some Litz wire on occasion.
BTW, thank you for the kind words!! They are very much appreciated.
Edits: 04/08/11
Stuart
I use old crossover inductor wire
for my secondary system in the kitchen.
Works great.
DanL
So what do you use for speaker interconnect wire? Solid wire seems pretty impractical.
Or, the Home Depot Special cables which use a compression lug on the end, preventing the oxidation that David McGown mentioned.
Litz wiring is great, but a bit expensive.
Stuart
WHOA! Don't touch that!
Mikey
For the main speakers -
I use 18ga OCC copper teflon on the positive
and 18ga OCC copper PVC on the negative.
For the Plate Amp to the subwoofer -
(Mounted together so no flexing involved)
I use 10ga generic copper house wire.
I strip off the PVC coating and
spiral wrap it with teflon tape and
finally some shrink wrap over it.
All of it solid core 8^D
DanL
TK
You have some posts that are well thought out.
Then you go and spoil it with ones like this.
You should really learn to censure yourself.
You would get along better with everyone.
DanL
What is it exactly that you object to? Every double-blind wire test I've ever performed or read about indicates no such effect. Even speaker cables can be made much smaller than most people would otherwise believe before listeners can detect a difference. When it comes to sonic improvements, there are much bigger fish to fry.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Neff
Also OCC wire has an added bonus -
"In 1986 the Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC) Process was developed by professor Ohno of the Chiba Institute of Technology in Japan. The wire made by this process ... has one crystal boundary per 6.5 km on avearge. Normal wire has a crystal boundary perhaps every 10 mm."
So OCC wire has no crystal boundry to jump across.
DanL
And what happens to that 3 mile crystal when you bend the wire?
Jim
What happens when you bend it?
Not much it just bends.
Just because they use the term crystal
doesn't mean it shatters.
Think of soldering vs welding.
Both can still bend without breaking.
"Normal" wire are pieces soldered together.
OCC wire is more like welded together.
It's forged as one piece of wire miles long.
The conductor can still bend without
breaking the crystal.
DanL
"has one crystal boundary per 6.5 km on avearge"
One every 6.5 KILOMETERS??? One every (roughly) 3 and 1/2 MILES??
Even 10 mm is HUGE - are you sure that quote is correct? Because if it is correctly quoted then let me be the first to raise the red flag on it!
Jim
Here are some others that have heard the difference.
I am sure at least one of them you'll respect.
http://www.sowter.co.uk/occ.php
http://www.onhifi.com/product/audience_au24_powerchord.htm
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/furutech/furutech-PCOCC.htm
http://www.monarchyaudio.com/specs_PCOCC_Spkr%20Cbl.htm
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-138007-p-2.html
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?forum=51&topic=34310
DanL
That's not what I questioned Dan - a single crystal over 3 miles long is what I question!! :~)
Jim
It is forged as one piece miles long.
Then cooled so that it stays integrated.
DanL
from my meager readings, I would guess that such skin effect would be noticeable only at high frequencies.
that said, I still use solid silver in the internals. inside the speaker box, I individually insulate each silver wire. the physics and the math are beyond me ... I just do it that way.
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