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How cool would this be? A few years ago, I lobbied hard for ATR to make a 1.0 mil "Classic" tape to complement (not replace) their existing "Master" tape as an effort to be a little more inclusive to us home hobbyists who prefer the long play tapes but also want ATR quality. PYRAL LPR-35, the only 1.0 mil tape still in production is of unstable supply and is of so-so quality. Old tapes such as Maxell, are only available on Ebay, usually at exorbitant prices and many of us reelers resent having to turn to private sellers to keep our decks going. This is where you can enter the picture. If you were to make a tape like this and with the same care you put into "Master", it would blow away any other tape out there including Maxell XLI and Quantegy 457.
I once spoke on the phone direct with the late Mike Spitz and he was not at all receptive to this idea and made it clear to me that he thought very little of home hobbyists such as us. I really urge ATR to at least give this idea [a] fair second look. There is a lot of untapped potential here....if it's done it right and not half baked. A lot of us do like flair, style, and substance where modern technology meets Old School aesthetics.
They were already almost there when, for a time, their tape came in these beautiful printed setup boxes. ATR even went so far as to include as a backdrop, a stylized rendition of a Sony type reel, even though I think there are only maybe a dozen of those actual style reels with the ATR emblem in existence. On a hunch, I suspect that this style I'm showing here reel would have far more appeal, since it seems to rank second only to that of the Maxell Double M as far as favorites amongst us tapeheads. The Maxell could never be duplicated or borrowed by any other brand, but the "Coke Bottle" is a timeless, venerable style. Because it was used by many different brands, that also affords us the creative license that the Maxell reel can't. This is a brief, crude rendition I drew up to show what such a reel could look like. Have these reels made up, your logo stamped on it, load it up with your famous thick tape that's almost overflowing out of the reel (a-la 3M # 996) but 3600', and bring back your gorgeous blue boxes. I realize that it would not be cheap as far as retail price, but if you saw what people are paying for old Maxell tapes and how often, your jaws would drop. Just for comparison, I have included a second rendition of a slightly different style reel that leans a little more towards the "pro" style, but could still pass for a "home hobbyists" type.
Give this some thought. We are not out to unseat your existing product and we know that professional studios and home hobbyists are different breeds. And you could capture both segments. And make a little money too, to say nothing of how thrilled many of us would be since we could tell the Ebay sellers "ta-ta" once and for all.
I know that many of us would love a lower priced tape that we could stock up on in a second. I'm sure all of us would, but economic realities of 2015 make that a highly unlikely possibility for something like this. The purpose of my proposal isn't necessarily an attempt to drive down prices per se, although it may have that effect to a limited degree if you factor in what tape and similar style reels frequently sell for a-la carte. Maxell's usually go for anywhere from $75-$100 ea and I'll posit a guess that ATR's retail price for "Classic" would likely be in the same ballpark. $24.99 ain't happening. Ever. Get that idea out of your head now. However, with "Classic Tape", the benefits are 1) quality that's at minimum, on par with Maxell and at most, far superior to it. 2) is fresh and modern tape. Even the "newest" Maxells are now approaching two decades in age and their lines of ownership (and storage) are hazy and lost. So with this idea, you'll get the best of both worlds: fresh, modern, and very high performance tape sold new from a trusted, still-in-the-business entity while still retaining the Old School look and feel that comes from buying NOS. And this tape, if it ever came to fruition, would kill off a good chunk of the Ebay market. You'll never eliminate it completely since there will always be spendthrift types out there content with buying $5 used Scotch 150's and Maxell LN's. But this proposal would not draw appeal to them anyway, so it's largely moot.
I am just now setting in motion a preliminary and exploratory exercise to "test the waters". This idea took life on Facebook, but I am spreading it out from there.
So if this were really available, would you buy it?
Follow Ups:
SO, let me ask a question about your economic "desires"; what are you willing to pay for reel of tape - with a metal or plastic reel? Or a pancake (you supply the reel?
Charles
Me personally, I, like everyone else would only pay as little as I had to. Who wouldn't love to. But I know that the volumes just aren't there that could lower the prices back to the twenties or thirties. A point I also addressed. So I'm trying to be realistic about it.But your question is something of a loaded one, which I attempted to pre-emptively answer in my opening. A balance needs to be struck between making it worthwhile to ATR (or any other maker) while still keeping it within reach of most of us. The philosophical and political criteria of who does and does not get the sale does factor into this (as evidenced by hostility shown towards private sellers while also urging us to support those still in the business).
So to answer your question, without knowing the actuals-such as what it would cost to produce these, in sufficient quantity, while having a sufficient demand for them, I can't say for certain. I posited that an ATR Classic Tape as proposed would probably sell for somewhere in the $75-$100 ballpark. Steep, yes. Outrageous? Depends on who you ask. Also keep in mind that on an inflation adjusted basis, that is also almost in parity with what similar premium tapes cost back in the mid and late 70's-during the high water mark of the format-when there were several competing brands to choose from and a store that stocked it could be found in almost every city in America (another little tidbit often lost on many of todays minds).
ATR Master is already not far behind at about $65. Ditto for complete packaged LPR-35. Pancakes, I would think could be profitably sold for around $35-$40 apiece, give or take.
Edits: 05/09/15
When I was younger I used 1.0 mil tape..But found that overtime the stresses on the tape distorted and slightly streached the polyester,,Time also increased print through,,Becoming annoying.. Not worth it for archiving music,,, ITS ok for monitoring police calls or conversation transcripts,, Or even elevator background music,,, I STILL WOULD NOT SUPPORT IT...IT LOST FAVOR FOR MUSIC ALONG TIME AGO,,,
How about floating your idea on tapeheads?
Proudly serving content-free posts since 1984.
I don't think X-2000R is willing or able to post to Tapeheads, he was the founder of Tapeheads and decided that everyone on Tapeheads was a loser always looking for a score and would never pay "his" price for anything no matter how good his deal was, he even threw a bunch of stuff in the trash when he could not get his price. Sold the site to Pacific Stereo and then raged against everyone on Tapeheads until he was kicked off the site. He belongs on Facebook where he can spout his thoughts without anyone calling him on them so he does not have to take is ball and go home.
We're Burning Daylight
Spoken by the person whom I invited into my home, sat and talked face to face with me for at least a couple hours and although you did drop a pretty penny on some tapes, you also know as well as I do that you left with far more stuff than were originally promised. You scored that day and you and I both know it. But I did it anyway because...well....I do things like that for people I like and respect. And you went well out of your way to come down, a fact that was also not lost on me.
You are right, I did get some tapes and it was a fair deal, don't think it was a "score" dropping a grand on tapes does not really qualify as a score, I think and hope we both think we got a fair deal. But whatever good will you had with me was lost with your constant attacking of people, myself included on Tapeheads. It got old quickly and you were correctly banned and it is pretty common knowledge that you did more on Tapeheads beside attack people in threads.
I wish you the best of luck, but I was pointing out that you are not really welcomed at Tapeheads and that I think the feeling is mutual you really don't care to hang out there either.
We're Burning Daylight
Yes. You dropped almost a grand, which is a hefty chunk for anyone. That part I agree with. However, the part you're leaving out is what you GOT for that grand. Were you to flip it for resale on the open market (I'm already pretty sure you did that to at least some of it), you could've easily doubled your money, or to look at it inversely, would've had to spend twice as much to get what you got. So to *MOST* people, that definitely qualifies as a score. But not in the strange little world of TH. You'd have to quadruple it for it to breach "score" territory.
As far as when I threw stuff away, my response to that is "yeah...and? So what?" People and businesses do that all the time: dispose of unwanted/unneeded/unsold items. What is so egregious about that? Again, the part that you left out is that I only disposed of them after repeated attempts to sell the items in question AT A DISCOUNT TO THE MARKET failed to materialize. If my asking prices were ridiculously above the market, you'd have an argument. But what really dismayed me about that whole episode was how I was made out to be the villain for not simply giving them away. But stop and think about what it was really being said. These folks were mad that they weren't given anything for free. They were stopping just short of demanding it; basically saying in a veiled (and sometimes not so veiled) way that not only were they right to not pay discounted prices, but that I owed it to them to give them away for free; that certain people felt that they were deserving. Of course no compelling reason as to why was ever presented.
So tell me again who has the [unfair and unrealistic] sense of entitlement???
And yes. I saw and am fully aware of the character assassinations of me that have taken place over there. As to be expected, there was a LOT and I do mean...a LOT of information that was left out of Jeffs dissertation. But that doesn't surprise me; when you have an agenda and an axe to grind, omitting certain facts and details is what you have to do in order to [mis]lead your readers into drawing the conclusions you want them to. But inasmuch as a pre-existing bias already existed there, I'm not really sure why it was felt to do that and do it in semi-secret. Jeff knows he's hiding a lot. So maybe that's why. And tell me what I did and said that wasn't an adherence to the truth? Oh yeah, Jeff said himself that he doesn't care about the truth. So a massive culture of denial, fantasy, and outright fiction is the dominating aspect of TH...I HAVE THAT IN WRITING FROM JEFF HIMSELF. You're telling me that you support a site that exists in an alternate reality of untruths, half truths, and cherry picking the facts you want to believe? What does that say about your own character and ethos? Those are the type of questions that make people quite uncomfortable, especially if the answer were to put them in a bad light. So it's easier to deny it and attack the person that's asking the question in order to divert attention away from what's really being talked about.
So before you or anyone else goes off hurling rocks, you better make sure you have your own ducks in a row. And trust me. Based on your two entry above, I'm here to tell you right now that...you don't. Jeff SHOULD be under arrest for some of the things he's said and condoned.
Now with all of that said, can we get back to the original topic of ATR tape please? If you wish to continue this dialogue in private, please feel free to email me.
1mil tape is subject to higher printthrough,,I would not support it..
Ok fair enough. Yes, 1.0 mil tape can have more print through compared to it's thicker counterpart. But you raised a question I should have mentioned in my original post. Do you currently use 1.0 mil tape? Because that's really who this question is directed at. Think Maxell UD and XLI, Quantegy 407, PYRAL LPR-35, etc. If you already do not use these (for whatever reason), then I wouldn't expect you to become a convert starting with my idea. If you are content using 1.5 only, then that's totally cool and I respect that. My question is for people that do use the long play tapes.
I just checked with a friend who gets me RMI tape at dealer cost.
Current price for a 20 pack; 3600ft; "pancake" of LPR35 (1.3mil) is around $30 per reel. 20 pack; 2500ft; SM900 (2 mil) is around $24 per reel.
Charles
Not happening. Although the first exploration of this idea took place there, they now are the last people I would want, expect, or need to get involved in this. I alluded to them in my closing paragraph. Let them stick with what they do best: raid Thrift Shops and foam at the mouth over their moldy, wrinkled Scotch 111 that's missing 100'...but damn it...they got it for ten cents so was a 'score'. I see little to no potential for this idea amongst that sites core demographic.
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