![]() ![]() |
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
In Reply to: Triangle Celius Speakers posted by FishMatisse214@aol.com on March 09, 2002 at 19:49:38:
I have been in the market to upgrade my speakers. After a great deal of looking and comparison I had decided on the Celius. While I haven't purchased them yet, I have continued to look for everything I could written about the speaker to make sure something didn't turn up that would cause me to change my mind. Well last evening while at my local Barnes & Noble I stumbled across the March issue of Hi-Fi News which had a review and lab test of the Celius.I'm not familiar with this publication and don't know what their history or reputation is. None-the-less, the review was "polite" but not as overwhelmingly supportive of the speaker as Sam Tellig or others I've talked with who own, or are familiar with the speaker.
The review sample was described as a "well run in ex-demo pair". The reviewer indicated the speaker was "musically engaging, generated satisfying sound levels, and expressive dynamics". The speaker was also described as showing some "bloom in the upper bass and a bit of cone and box sound". They were also described as "fun to be with, upbeat spirit, fine dynamics, driving rhythm, high midrange resolution and very good for the money. Now for some of the concerns.
There was a feeling that while the "main drivers were tonally balanced they weren't perfectly blended". The reviewer stated a "family friend could hear a high treble zing but wasn't bothered by it". The Celius measurements indicated that the minimum impedance dropped to 2.2 ohm's in the midband and the "amplifier loading was juged severe". Thus the reviewer indicated the "speaker couldn't be given a clear recommendation but was interesting and musical and had the right to be heard".
Now that I've read this review I'm a little more than concerned about the speaker and wonder what others make of this review. I know what the speaker sounds like is most important, but does this information warrant concern? I also realize at the price point of the Celius, perfection shouldn't be expected. This is also just one reviewer's opinion, however, the lab tests are a bit more than opinion. Any thoughts are welcome!
Follow Ups:
I saw that review, too, and at first I didn't quite know what to make of it. MC has been reviewing stuff forever, but that review didn't square with what I hear and measure from mine.After a little thought, though, I believe I know where the trouble lies. The biggest problem with these speakers is that they take a LONG time to run the woofers in. Out of the box, mine were 18db down at 63hz, and it takes at least a hundred hours of hard driving to loosen them up. After three weeks, mine were still down 6db at 63hz. That's why a lot of people have been turned off on them in showrooms--they do sound brash before they are broken in, and I think the process takes longer than most dealers appreciate. Most speakers in a dealer's showroom get very little time actually producing music, especially if the dealer has many different speakers to demo. They may get a few hours of actual play at loud levels in a week, and probably less. I know that my local Sound Advice has speakers that actually get driven by music no more than a few minutes a month.
It looks to me like the midbass hump that MC observed probably means that his speakers weren't as well run-in as he thought. To get more bass response, he placed them too close to the rear wall (he had them set up a foot from the rear wall, which is much too close). This probably overemphasized the midbass, and it also would have degraded their imaging--MC called them fair to good in that department, while mine beat hell out of the electrostats I used to own.
In my case, in an ordinary carpeted living room which opens behind the listener into other open space, the in room response of the Celius is much flatter than what is shown in the Colloms review, both in bass and midrange. I can't speak to upper treble because I'm an old fart and my hearing is shot above about 16KHz. I don't have the equipment to measure impedance or phase angle, but I have to wonder whether those weren't affected in the review by lack of run-in of the drivers, too.
Bottom line for me is that these are tremendous speakers, very emotionally involving, full of life and air. My wife, who has never been particularly interested in or impressed by earlier versions of my system, was stopped dead in her tracks when I put on Tapestry the other day, and actually sat down to listen with me. That's the acid test.
It's pointless to debate the merits of speakers in the abstract: ie the amp & room questions must be addressed at the same time. All I can say is that in my large room both the 30 watt tube Audiomat Arpege & the 60 watt transistor ["not recommended with 4 ohm loads"] Bryston both work magic with the Celius.
N. B. I only listen to acoustic music [jazz & classical] & only at 'realistic' levels. I also think that these are the finest speakers that I have ever owned [Infinity, IMF, Acoustat, Thiel, ProAc, Totem, Harbeth etc.] At their price they are just plain outrageously good!
Mark,This magazine has been around for ages and is well respected. Martin Colloms is an excellent technical writer with an established reputation and an outstanding lab. If he did the measurements you can be confident that these were done correctly.
Hi-Fi News reviews used to be reasonably reserved and not the gushing, flavour-of-the-month, over-the-top reviews you see elsewhere. I really used to like this magazine 5 years ago, but I don't have a subscription now. I get it occasionally.
As far as the impedance dip goes, you are right to look carefully at this and the demands it places on your amplifier chain. If your gear is up to it there won't be a problem. But if you listen loud and your power amp can't "double-down" (N watts into 8 Ohms, 2N watts into 4 Ohms, 4N watts into 2 Ohms) then the match may present some small problems.
I personally like speakers that are reasonably efficient and present a benign load; but I like valve amps
Regards,
Metralla
Agreed. HiFi News is British and as such maintains a certain reserve when reviewing components. Basically Martin is saying they are great for the money, but not without limitations. When he trashes something, he will something to the effect of "while well made, the bass is not in line with similarly priced competitors." What I enjoy about the mag is that is better written than the typical American review.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: