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In Reply to: RE: Best Bargain in loudspeakers under $20,000? posted by RGA on February 19, 2023 at 20:15:43
Think of watches as one of the few generally acceptable jewelry options for men. And, just like jewelry for women, a high price and exclusivity just becomes part of the effort to "show off" to display one's high status.
A number of years ago I had a client that came up with an alternative to watches for men's jewelry -- writing pens. Their cheapest model was $3,000 and they had options that ran close to $100K. Sadly, the big economic downturn in 2008 did them in.
If I recall correctly, the one shown below was $50K or $60K for a single pen, and that was 15 years ago.
Follow Ups:
Well, the term audio jewelry has come into play for a reason. I remember the watch craze and it is still with us. It's about status and name-brand appeal. Sometimes the items ARE in fact superior and it's up to each person, in the end, to determine what that is.
On another forum, a person was asking about a Tissot Gentleman Powermatic 80 watch in green (I tried it on two weeks back) - $550 is retail - so not cheap but in the watch world pretty cheap. Most would consider it a great value.
The fellow then tried on a Longines and also liked it but it runs $2,300 or so.
Now folks who know watches will run down the specs and noted that Tissot and Longines are both owned by the Swatch group - which owns ETA movements. Both watches have ETA movements (the same) and both come with Sapphire crystal glass (virtually impervious to scratches).
There are not diamonds or gold to really indicate what the Longines is giving you. Maybe it's a bit nicer finished - ok - so it's 20% better.
You know what that means in audio - if it's 20% better of course you will pay $80,000 over $10,000. LOL.
My suggestion on the watch was that you could buy about 5 Tissot Gentleman kind of watches for all different occasions with different styles and looks. Or be stuck with just one watch. And it's not like Longines has some sort of elite pedigree as a show off watch - it isn't Patek or Rolex or even Omega (also owned by Swatch and also using ETA movements).
In the end, though it comes down to your "feelings" about it.
Personally, I like the "story" of Orient watches more and they build it all in house. And for $350 I bought one. And then I bought two other Tissot watches.
The pens make no sense to me but perhaps they are filled with liquid gold?
Eta mechanical movements come in 4 grades: Standard, Elabore, Top and COSC(chronometer).
Differences between grades amount to finish, accuracy,
& higher quality mainsprings, balance wheel and jewels.
COSC certification takes Top movements and subjects them individually to a 2 week multiple orientation, multi-temperature, high accuracy evaluation.
Tissots and Certinas will generally use the standard grade Eta calibers with a few flagship models utilizing Elabore or COSC certified movements. Longines, Rado and Mido only use Elabore and higher grade Eta calibers.
Edits: 03/12/23
Thanks for that - I have read that some of the non COSC movements are measuring to that standard when tested. Although I suppose you'd have to buy the watch and get "lucky" that yours measures that well.
I'm looking at Oris at the moment but for a lark, I looked up Tissot COSC -
Here you go $352. Granted gray market Jomashop but still... Of course, people seem put off by the powermatic 80 beat rate thing, the second-hand judder.
After looking at the Grand Seiko Spring Drive - everything else now looks like quartz! :-)
Nothing wrong with the Powermatic movements provided that the lesser smoothness of the second hand's sweep doesn't detract. Probably their greatest issue is that your typical watch repair guy will have more difficulty in fine regulation.
My most accurate watch is a COSC powermatic Mido CommanderII that has been reliably running @ avg.+1/2 sec/day (-1/4 to +1.25 s/d range)-imo,pretty credible for a tool movement.PS- I've a friend with a blue dial Tissot Chemin that he loves-the price of that COSC is like theft but fortunately I can'tget away with a 42 and don't have dresser space for another winder anyway.
PPS- agree entirely about the GS spring drives-love their dial face & marker detailing too.
PPPS- speaking of seiko's- i'm really impressed with the presage line- the workmanship is stunning and sold at midline pricing- near GS level attention to details of hands, markers and dial faces
PPPPS- as you are probably aware, Oris uses Sellita movements nowadays-ie: ETA 2824-2(SW200) or ETA Valjou(SW500)derived calibres.Sellita was formerly an Eta subcontractor and picked up the slack when Swatch Group
initially announced they would faze-out the supply of movements to outside manufacturers. The quality of the Sellita mechanisms are excellent.
Edits: 03/16/23 03/16/23
I have looked at the presage but many of them have that Hardlex instead of Sapphire. I bought a Seiko with Hardlex and it was completely scratched to hell in one week. My Sapphire Tissot Bridgeport is 8 years old and looks new. So I swore off any watch that doesn't have a sapphire glass or at least Sapphire Crystal coating as my Vincero is still looking new 5 year or so now.
Some of the presage models do use Sapphire but not the ones I like.
I am looking at a brand called Vario that uses either a Seiko NH38A Automatic movement or an Adjusted Miyota 82s5 automatic gilt movement (Côtes de Genève). They are in the sub $360 range - kind of cool-looking watches out of Singapore.
I hadn't realised that the Presages were using a mineral glass rather than sapphire. That's a shame.
So you're looking at the Vario Trenches? Neat retro styling, imo.
I quite like the offset onion crowns.
Speaking of onion crowns, I'm also partial to some of the Laco's fleigers as well.
The basic pilot line with Miyota 821A movements are pretty reasonable starting at around $400 USD
Anywhoo, have fun in your quest.
I decided to buy a Vario and support the little guy. I've been after a salmon watch for a while and he and his wife have a lot of nice reviews.
Movement: Seiko NH38A Automatic
Crystal: Sapphire with inner AR coating
Diameter: 38mm
Lug to Lug: 46mm
Thickness: 11.5mm
Strap Width: 20mm
There are 100 available in each of 13 colours - all were sold out except this Salmon Tuxedo and a grey tuxedo. So they are doing not too bad selling 1100+ watches of just one series (Empire).
Their 1918 Trench watches have gotten some good press and I like them but not sure where I could wear them. I do kind of like some of these microbrands - I find that some of the mainstream stuff all kind of look the same, especially those dive watches.
Sweet.I like the art deco thing going on. Gonna be an eye catcher.
I wasn't aware of their full range-just the Trench field watches.
For myself, I keep eyeing a Muhle Glasshutte Panova.
Then again,
there's that Nomos Club Campus.
So many watches....
... so few wrists
Yes so many watches - I like the Nomos watches as well.
if you're on the Vario site check out their popeye watches.
An optical lens sits as a water droplet to magnify the "Jumping Hour". This rare complication has a hidden hour wheel jumping to the current time number, instead of the hour hand sweeping around the dial.
They make ones without Popeye too but I think the jumping hour things is pretty awesome. Marine vessels aspects: a helmsman's wheel, a sailor hat on the crown, hands from steam engine gauges, and subdials with an anchor or compass hand.
Sold out of course but they may be back.
I Made a big mistake some 15 years back. I had to sign a form and I absent-mindedly picked the pen from my friend's pocket, opened and signed. Only then I saw the Mont Banc name on that beautiful pen. We were very good friends but it upset me alot and had to avoid him for some time!!
Bill
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