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I know I could probably answer this question by just doing it, but it is a pain in the ass to move my subwoofer.
Currently I have the sub inside and next to the left speaker. Would it make a difference if it was outside and next to the left speaker?
Follow Ups:
if you can(see pic below). I was not able to do that due to WAF, so my Hsu HRSW10 sub pairs(pic) are in the right and left corners with the left sub five feet forward of the right. Both are a foot from any boundary.
With that placement, there were still big peaks and valleys in the sound level. I could walk from the back of my 30 foot room and clearly detect the peaks and valleys as I walked towards the front. Fortunately, my seating position is located at a peak.
Your taking HSU post out of context. There's not enough information to go on.I would not take this advice until you know the context around the OP's question that prompted this answer.
what I said.By the way, that Dr.Hsu comment is right out of his instruction booklet along with Dr. Hsu recommending the sub crawl as well. I can certainly see the sub crawl being used as a starting point, then checking the bass frequency range in other areas as well as you stated.
Edits: 03/15/21 03/16/21
I can place the sub either left or right of the left speaker, no more than 6" away.
It's a space and aesthetics thing.
There may be no way to significantly improve the quality of bass response you're getting until you are able to stop living the constricted life. I doubt that simply buying one new subwoofer will help much, regardless of how stout and/or loaded with features it might be.Subwoofers need to go where they need to go. The room itself is like the brutal dictator, not the quivering peon.
Edits: 03/12/21
Leave it where it is now and try orientating the sub 90 degrees in one direction and see if you notice an improvement over the original position. If not, orientate it 180 degrees from the previous direction and listen. If not, move the sub to the other speaker side and check for the 3 orientations, out into the room and the other two 90 degrees to the left and 90 degrees to the right.
Enjoy the pain. You won't know if it makes a difference without moving that subwoofer. Based on my experience when living with someone that really cares about aesthetics, I'd put the sub where it has the least effect on the decor and functionality of the room, regardless of small differences in sound. '-)Tom
Edits: 03/12/21
start there if so
Edits: 03/12/21
I will elaborate more on this tomorrow posting measurements I've taken with REW, (Room EQ Wizard). Getting bass right and integrating subs with your main speakers is not as straight forward as you think.
I thought he said 'pub crawl' ... huh
oh well
regards,
n.t.
If you can (or will !), try moving your listening seat far out of the way and place the subwoofer there instead, directly in the spot you'd normally sit.Plug the sub in and wire it up, then begin playing something with repetitive and wide ranging bass lines. Preferably, play something like the Stereophile test record bass evaluation tracks.
Next, while holding your head up at about the same height as it is when you typically sit down to listen, crouch and crawl around the room wherever there is room to do so. Yes, you will look like a frog in heat but pay yourself no mind. Decide where in the room your bass sounds the cleanest and the best. Place your subwoofer there, if you can.
Remember that proximity to the main speakers is not necessarily the main issue when you are crossing over as low as you say you are. At 37 HZ, bass is completely omni-directional and so, the best spot for bass in your room will be wherever the room and the subwoofer says it is best !
Fiddle with phase and level controls until it sounds as good as it can sound. Your wife and family may not like where it is that the subwoofer ends up, of course. And now I cannot counsel you further.
Edits: 03/11/21
Room modes is the complicated 2 word answer and room modes will emphasize certain bass frequencies while squashing other. The pub ...oops .. I mean sub crawl (pub crawl is a reward after a job well done!!) will get you bass at some frequencies and missing in others from that one listening spot only. It changes drastically when you move locations. That's the reason why sub crawls arent all that good. You may get lucky if you want to zero in on one sweet spot only, emphasis on the word lucky.The graphs I'm posting is measurements I took to try and find the sweet spot for the widest range of bass frequencies possible across all 3 listener positions (left,center,and right) seating positions on a couch. I would move the sub to one location and run 3 frequency sweeps, one for each spot on the couch.
The last spot is where I settled as it gave me the flattest response across the entire couch.
I was lucky that I was able to achieve this kind of flat response with 1 sub in this particular room (my basement). I was able to achieve this with my bedroom as well BUT I cannot do this with my 2nd system in the great room. The greatroom is too big, irreuglarily shaped so I bought a 2nd sub (which is the usual recommendation) and I will use miniDSP to integrate the two subs.
Edits: 03/12/21 03/12/21 03/12/21 03/12/21 03/12/21
The 'crawl" is recommended in the Monolith/Monoprice subwoofer owners manual provided with three of the four subwoofers I own.So, I assumed that it was probably a legit method but I guess they are wrong (and I guess I was wrong to assume they were legit with their info) ?
The solution I use to get flat, smooth bass response over a wide listening window is the asymmetrically distributed multiple subwoofer method, based on Duke LeJeune's "The Swarm" method. I use four subwoofers placed in different horizontal and vertical positions throughout the room. Once I carefully balanced volume levels and phase relationships between front and rear area subwoofers in my room the quality of my bass response improved dramatically. It really works !
I would have recommended a multi-sub system to Jimbill because I know it works but it sounded as if he was strapped for working space, or something like that...
Thanks for the info.
Edits: 03/12/21
'now I cannot counsel you further'
but can you recommend a chiropractor?
seriously, in the absence of measurement gear that's not bad advice
with regards,
On carpeted floors one might have to use a wheeled dolly. Or, some brute strength.
Cheap furniture glides work great on most surfaces
I'd probably just leave the sub where I used to sit and stay on the floor where it sounds good! maybe a mechanics creeper would come in handy
It depends on the dimensions of the room, the objects in it (whether normal furnishings or intentionally installed acoustic material) and its interaction with bass notes in general, which in turn is affected by the position of the subwoofer in the room, which in turn is affected by the interaction of the subwoofer with the speakers. That latter combination is most complicated near the crossover frequency where both the sub and speakers are putting out a substantial amount of sound.
I'm sure that an experience acoustics engineer starts much closer to the desired mark than us ordinary people, but for us, experimentation is the key. Just keep in mind that the best spots may not impress your spouse very much. ;-)
The higher the crossover frequency, the more difference it is likely to make. Unless you have a simple rectangular room, it's kind of difficult to predict whether you'll get better results without trying it.
As for the room, large with high ceiling. Furniture aplenty and 4 ft. counter about 18 from the speakers. But the sofa is in front of the counter, so it probably doesn't add to the many problems.
Since you're only using it for sub-bass frequencies, the only effect you're likely see is a little more room gain if it's getting closer to the corner, which could be corrected via adjusting the level down a bit.
I would think between speakers is better? but of course impossible to tell without doing it. A few feet one way or the other could make a difference. It's amazing using a program like REW (free, for Macs and PCs) how much the response can change.
I currently have mine in a corner of my 18x23x8 space, according to REW there are the expected peaks at the room modes. Moving it to the center of the 18' wall really smooths things out (according to the program). Two or more of the peaks actually 'disappear'. I haven't tried this in real life, using measurements, but am going to.
All the advice given about placement might as well be tossed out the window. Unless room shape is identical in shape and dimension, what is good for person A will suck for person B. Im even skepticle of person's A placement unless measurured.
If you're using it as a true subwoofer (i.e., just for the lowest frequencies) then its placement doesn't matter at all. Placing it near a wall or at a corner will, of course, amplify its sound.
My subwoofer is to the right of the right speaker and the system has no problem making the bass drum sound like it's on the left, if that's what on the recording.
It is not just "location" left to right that matter. The sub will add and subtract with the acoustic waves of the mains in overlap fundamentals and room based harmonics even with the roll off sharp and low.
Gsquared
if the sub is integrated correctly, dialed in around 5 > 10Hz of the main speaker's lowest roll off, there shouldn't be any 'overlap fundamentals' though dual subs are still better to 'pressurize' the room, but a centered sub will do in my experience just so long as the drivers / speakers are equidistant and on the same plane
you seem to have experienced using one differently, what was the set-up?
regards,
In my room the smoothest system response was with a single sub against either side wall 1/3rd out from the front wall. I have helped a few folks with sub placement locally and that seems to be a good starting point for a 2.1 system. Away from the walls were almost always worse locations in my room when I did measurements.
Gsquared
OK ... that's basically what Mel said ... and myself except that I advocate center placement or dual subs ... only because the louder you play the system the greater the sympathetic room excitation that may modulate to frequencies allowing the sub to draw attention to it's placement
well, maybe not the room itself but all the stuff we tend to stuff it with
damn I sound pedantic, don't mind me, carry on
regards,
No - you sound experienced and competent. In my set up I never perceive the location of the sub and it is rolled off at 70 Hz for my LRS and 40 Hz for the ProAc set up. I did add a set of 70 HZ high pass filter before my amp when using the LRS based on some good AA advice..
Gsquared
Edits: 03/11/21
the LRS sure get a lot of buzz but I've read that they can be difficult to
integrate with subs, so if you've found the recipe you're a leg up on many who've adopted them ... I'd sure like to hear them; which reminds me:
a few years back I tried to help a pal get his little MC1 mags to play well with a SVS sub ... he was happy & it was OK, but I was frustrated
ah well, I bitch about the way he drives too, it was probably just me!
[it really was him though]
glad you tuned everything in, enjoy!
regards,
From 70 HZ up in a reasonable size room at reasonable levels the LRS are the real thing. As long as you understand their limits and strengths. If I am in the mood for rock or a symphony, the ProAcs do not have those limitations.
Gsquared
No!
I found that with one sub along a side wall 1/3 into the room is a good start for sonics.
Gsquared
Due to the WAF. My system can only be along the one large wall, and placed together. It is in our open space family/kitchen/breakfast room. The one wall has hallways off the two corners.
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