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In Reply to: RE: Audio Note AX-Two posted by RGA on March 05, 2021 at 06:32:35
Why is AN so secretive about the prices for their products? Drives me nuts that I have no idea how much any of their speakers or components are. I'm sorry, I like to know before I bother a dealer whether I can afford, or want to pay the $$$ for something. I remember a few years ago there was some sort of AN price list floating around, but that was long ago.
Follow Ups:
I discussed this with the Hong Kong dealer and he noted that the dealer will tell you the price. Audio Note doesn't sell through music direct or online so it seems like their prices are secretive but they're not. All their dealers have the price list.
And they are like all the other non-internet brands. If you want to know the price of a Shindo amp - it's not online - you have to make an inquiry with a dealer.
Plus AN is largely a made-to-order maker - and at high dollar items, exchange rates become a thing. Here in Hong Kong - the way you pay becomes a thing - they'll give you a cash price but if you pay by credit card they want 2-3% extra to cover the cost. On a $100 item they don't care but 2% on a $50,000 item - that is real money.
Fair enough, but even for most "non internet" brands I can get an idea of the price, for AN, just completely clueless. So they have 15 different options of a speaker and I have no idea if I should even consider one. I like to go to a dealer and have some idea.
Thanks for your info.
Well, that is a downside to Audio Note.
With some brands, you have to ask a dealer. They're not sold through online stores or sold at big-box chains with weekly fliers advertising a price.
Besides Audio Note when they list a price they tend to put a "high" sticker price up to mitigate the exchange and tariffs and shipping increases. So you will always pay less than you probably expected to pay or what the sticker price quotes.
If a CD player is sold at Music Direct for $2999. You pay $2999 but the AN CD player may list $3699 but you actually pay $2800. And it's the better-sounding CD player than the thing at Music Direct. Sometimes it's worth the pain in the ass. Plus, I think they want people to actually listen to stuff before they buy it.
They make so much stuff - they have something at almost all price levels above a certain minimum. So they have speakers for $700, $1000, $1500, $2000, $2500, $3000, $3500, $4000, $4500, $5000 - onwards up to $350,000.
Something like 35 speakers and they're not a speaker company - it's a tertiary business.
I also think it is not a bad business idea. You go in and you listen to an OTO and it is say $3500 - but then you hear the Sig version at $5000. Maybe you decide that $1500 is a lot but it is doable given the improvement so you elect to spend the extra.
If you went to a store selling say a Roksan Kandy integrated for $3500 - there is not sig version to entice you to part with an extra $1500.
That is what happened to me - back in 2003 I auditioned the AN J/LX which was like $2200 and I loved it - the dealer then brought in the AN J/Spe which was $2500 and I could not go back to the other one - it was considerably better and for a doable $300 more. And that was a few hundred less than the inferior B&W 805 which was the speaker I intended to buy.
Not making excuses for them or anything - Just stating my perceived opinion on what they're doing. I am sure they lose a lot of sales with this policy but obviously, on balance, it seems to work for them. Getting people to hear the difference in parts quality - going from one model than to the next one or two versions up.
Someone noted to me that Audio Note sells you the gear you can dream on. Almost no other company does that.
So the dealer here sells AN and Roksan. A person comes in and plops down the money for the Roksan. You as a dealer sold 1 customer 1 item and you may never see them again. There is no vastly better-sounding Roksan amp after that. One and done - you made your profit and that's it.
With Audio Note - you buy a basic OTO and if you loved it and your CD player dies - hey why not see if that synergy thing is real - makes sense that the caps and wiring in the CD player match the ones in your amp and the structure is the same in the speakers and IC and Speaker wire and that the caps are voiced similarly in the CD player as the amp. So the customer comes back to buy a CD player. Comes back for the cables.
Then if he liked it - well now - there are 8 integrated amps 6 above the OTO and various versions of each. Or maybe he decides to go separates - wow - 9 preamps with like 5 versions of each one. Power amps? 10 Stereo power amp models and 14 monoblocks - usually 3 versions of each. (Regular, Silver, Silver Signature)
Prices? Bwahahaha - I think often they don't know until someone orders it. Then they say okay someone ordered the Onkoru II - this uses this transformer and this silver - how much is the silver costing us today - X what about Brexit - X - how much is shipping that all went up X - Calculate calculate - here is the price.
I saw an Audio Note radio tuner in a second-hand shop. What? Is it real? I asked Peter why it is not on the website. He replied, "If we put it on the website someone might order it." I get his sense of humor.
When I bought my speakers - they were not on the website - it was a requested design by the Hong Kong dealer - Audio Note elected to make it - it became a popular seller (even though expensive a lot less expensive than others) and eventually, they put it on their website. There could be a dozen products not listed.
In the end - it ain't going to be for everyone. That's why there are thousands of companies out there.
Nice rundown. I guess it does work for them. I think the quality of the dealer is going to be important, one that doesn't dismiss you if you can't afford the SE MKIII Silver Signature...And one that displays examples of products in a range of prices.
I had the same experience when I bought my turntable. It's an SME. I listened to the new model 10 that they had. Then I listened to the 20. Worlds better, and the price difference (at the time) was pretty negligible so it was a no brainer-- if you can say that about a $10k piece of equipment.
I'll certainly go see my AN dealers here when I can. Really intrigued by the speakers and would love to listen to the "more affordable" models.
The other thing to note is that because they make a ridiculous number of things there is no way a dealer can stock them. The AN E as noted has 17 versions - it comes in 20 finishes - matte or high gloss and AN has not added the full RAL colour sectrum as options.
The Hong Kong dealer Elephant Holdings has a few secondary outlets now - those shops sell the AX Two and the Zero level stuff. Another one carries the insanely priced stuff like the Gak-On power amps at over 1/4 million.
They elected to buy one of the light woods, one medium wood, and maybe one dark wood - and they usually have 3 levels (out of the 17). They have one AN J speaker and one AN K. And this is the top-selling AN dealer in the world. I am guessing that Singapore is up there as well.
On the Steve Hoffman forum, there are a few dealers who post there from the USA who have pretty good stock.
I think most dealers will carry the more affordable range. The M1 Phono I have been using for the last 5 months as I have been waiting for them to build me my M6. (which just arrived a couple days ago).
You can follow the mega-thread on the Steve Hoffman forum. It began in 2015 and is still going so it's quite insane. Plenty of folks make the same case you make about the prices.
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/strictly-for-fans-of-audio-note-uk.422880/
As for the speakers the vid sort of illustrates the issue with prices - they stock materials not equipment.
It's a rather long multi-part factory tour.
Thanks for those links, I'll check them out when I can.Always amazed at their offerings. That, to me sounds like a logistical nightmare. But, as I said it must work for them.
So, RGA, fount of AN knowledge here, If I were to ask you to spec me an AN system for say, $15 - 20,000, what would you suggest I go and ask Nick the AN dealer down the street (not literally down the street, but Nick is real and 2.5 miles away) to demo for me.
My criteria are:
Integrated amp preferred
remote control volume (I only see the "Cobra" integrated offering that. Don't like the style at all.
smaller speakers (E's are just too big for my space)
Digital source (I have mostly cd's, but a quite a few SACD's and am asking in the HiRez forum if they're "rippable"
I'm trying to simplify the boxes, IC's and power cords. Space will be small and relatively near field. I know you're familiar with that in HK.
I'm hoping to have some ready money soon and maybe try and trade the SME TT in if I can get a good value on it.
Edits: 03/06/21
Remote control will be an issue but Audio Note did make remote control preamps in the past. If you really need it - Audio Note can probably custom make them. The Cobra is a bit ugly but it is integrated with a remote and a built-in non-oversampling DAC for I believe $4,200.
Nick would be the man as he is also a fully knowledgable repair facility.
AN doesn't do SACD
My room is 18 by 13 - the AN K is superb. But then so is the E.
For under $20k and In a smaller room -
AN K/Lx
Meishu Tonmeister - is the best 300B I have heard and will eat half your budget - the basic one is great. The two above may be better but there is always something better. The basic version is great. (I was not a big fan of the older Meishu is sounded too delicate for me). But you may like it - it was their number one selling integrated and the price may be reasonable second hand.
Lexus cables throughout which is the internal cable of the LX speakers.
Then any combination of CD player or DAC/Transport with the money left.
If you plan to rip most of your music - a DAC. I listen now mostly to vinyl due to the TT3 being IMO a Gamechanger for vinyl. So the DAC 0.1X has been more than fine for me the last few years. Plus it's the only one with USB input (Peter's humor once again) where his least expensive DAC caters to computers. The good DACs cater to CD. I like the chutzpah!
All of this should be under $20k and I would expect much less if buying multiples. But as always just audition - being that close you should get home auditions of the stuff as well. And they may have good deals so you may get a better version of something.
I ended up with the AN K because the dealer noted to me that another customer was saving for the AN J/SEC - so he needed to sell his K to get the money for the J. Dealers know their customers so it's possible to get something better for less. At the time I was trying to sell my KEF LS-50 which no one wanted here. Hong Kongers don't generally like anything made in China. So the dealer convinced the fellow to take less cash for the AN K along with the KEF.
Thenks so much.
That integrated looks great, except for the red lettering and that font, ugh. Didn't they used to be blue? I'm sorry to say I'm a bit of an aesthetist, so looks are important. Lack of remote may not be a killer though (see below re Marantz SACD player). I saw some of their discontinued products had them, wonder why they moved away from that feature.
I actually have a 300B integrated from Wavelength Audio (no remote) that needs repair (Nick refused, said it wasn't worth his time and my money). I need to send it back to Wavelength I guess.
Other amps I'm considering are the Wavelength Duetto (using the Marantz), the Linear Tube Audio ZOTL, either power or integrated, and for SS, the Sugden A21. I think that covers all the bases.
Speaker looks phenomenal. The applewood finish is beautiful (again with the font on the finish descriptions, it's unreadable!). But it looks like it would be what I'm after as far as "close to the room boundaries" condition.
I don't have golden ears, so as far as digital I'm looking at the new Marantz SACD 30N. It's sort of a Swiss army knife, includes a preamp in some fashion. I know I could use it with a power amp, not sure about an integrated.
Thanks again, and I'll give Nick a call when things are amenable here.
If buying new then you can have whatever case you like. You can get the Meishu in black with black or gold knobs. The speakers have stick on badges so you can put them wherever you like. I left mine off. One of the advantages of made to order is that you can get the look you want. Peter has an artist who does special prints on the amps as well. One guy bought it with a front Scottish plaid plate. Another person bought a hot pink Jinro.
Edits: 03/07/21 03/07/21
Thanks again, that's good to know. I remember looking at them years ago and loved the look.
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