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In Reply to: RE: That's what... posted by E-Stat on June 27, 2017 at 16:16:18
Resistance tends to have the biggest wiggle room when it comes to wire. 16 AWG zip cord when used as speaker wire can be run at relatively long distance within a typical home audio listening room based on resistive loss, but even the most dedicated believers that wire makes no difference for the better may go ahead and use larger AWG zip cord, perhaps because it looks better to the eye, rather than the ear.
If there is any religious analogy towards the topic, it's not the cable advocates who are mislead, it's the cable naysayers who are transfixed by their hardened beliefs against matters they are simply not aware of, and refuse to explore. I'm pleased to know that there's enough anecdotal evidence found over the years that indicate there are open-minded listeners who breakout of their disbelief in cables as tools for better audio and give the topic a try.
It's all good on my end of the cable topic. It's their loss, not mine.
For folks who find that "wire is wire", I say move along, there's nothing here for you.
Here's the kind of comment that I've never read before:
"Yeah, I tried Valhalla in my system over the weekend and I can't tell any different between that and zip cord"
So, E-Stat, are you the self appointed arbiter of who should stay in this thread and who should not?
I was under the impression that this kind of attitude was only acceptable in the Cables Asylum.
It appears that a number of us are mildly sceptical of many of the claims made by a few Inmates who appear to be fanatical about wires and cables. Pardon us if we don't blindly follow anybody else's religion without questioning some of the dogma.
I don't understand those who devote considerable time discusssing that which they think is unimportant.to them.
where a 'high end' speaker manufacturer's recommendation (in this case Harbeth's advice of "good wire but don't overspend") for speaker cables may be considered blasphemy!
Go back to your hole please and don't pollute here with your BS.
You should read all posts within a thread before an accusing statement like that is made. If a $1.68 per foot speaker cable is too exotic to recommend, then even a lower bar has been set by some regarding Harbeth's advice of "good wire but don't overspend" for speaker cables. I've paid more for a haircut than an 8 foot pair priced at $26.88.
See link to my post within this thread:
Harbeth's advice on speaker cable is a reasonable position. I did not recommend 'lamp cord'. OFC hi-end power tool cord maybe. :-)
Some even went so far as to suggest that agreeing with Harbeth's recommendation bordered on 'cable nay-saying' and those people should not be posting on this thread. =:-0
I recommended CANARE Star Quad Pretty much the same as you posted and in line with Harbeth's recommendation.
...."naysayers" will be deleted on "the" cable asylum.
for recommending a $75 power cable!
OK, with a fair disclosure that I am NOT necessarily;y a 'cable guy'. :-)
I would say there's a decent gray area between "cable advocates" and "cable naysayers."
I'm actually not sure what a "cable naysayer" is. :) Any objectivist worth his salt would not disagree that cables could have audible effects based on source impedance, load impedance, cable LCR and parasitic characteristics, etc, etc. However, any "cable advocate" that thinks there's some type of magic at work here is deluded.
The most irritating thing involved in the cable topic is the condescending attitude directed at "cable naysayers" by "cable advocates." :) "Open-minded" and "closed-minded" are polarizing labels that most audiophiles don't deserve to have applied to them.
Should fuses be considered wire or components?
Is wire not a component?
Oh YEAH !! seems everyone ignores the fact that inside your speaker is about 60-100 feet of guess what - 22-28 gauge commercial grade copper wire. So you have a $1000 speaker wire terminating on about ten bucks of copper - hum?
There's a difference between carrier components and working components. The speaker cable is a necessary evil. It shouldn't contribute anything to the task at hand and must simply do as little damage as possible as we move the speaker away from the amplifier.
The wire in a driver forms an electrical component and it does work. We don't expect to find an unscathed signal at the other end of it; we expect to find ground (usually). As such, it is chosen for completely different properties and it's already factored into the potential performance of the speaker.
What you can complain about is the few feet of hook-up wire in the speaker, though.
If so, so what?
Manufacturers of high quality loudspeaker drivers care very much about the characteristics of the wire they use to wind their voice coils, e.g. the electrical parameters of the wire and its insulation, the geometry of the wire, how it's wound on the former, etc.
The purpose of the voice coil wire is to produce a magnetic field. The wire going from the amp to the loudspeaker terminals serves a different purpose, so there's no basis for comparing their performance.
... "The wire going from the amp to the loudspeaker terminals serves a different purpose, so there's no basis for comparing their performance."
Actually, there is basis for performance comparisonss The purpose of the "wires" in both examples you cite is to conduct an electrical current. Physical configurations of conductors may be arranged to take advantage of the consequences of a "flowing" electrical current. In the case of a voice coil, low loss and low mass are also usually considered important. In the case of audiophile grade speaker cables, visual impressiveness is typically as important as electrical properties if not more so. ;-)
To confuse the issue with facts for this segment of the audience. :)
And what about the cheap stuff going from your $3K PL filter to the box? And that noisy awful stuff going from the box to the pole?
Where does it end?
One hypothesis is that the further you get away from the component's power supply, the less it matters. Which kind of makes sense considering that home electrical wiring is a poor conductor of RF. And it's not like there are "dirty" electrons traveling all the way from the power plant to your system. AC electrical circuits are not pipes.
My favorite is someone using a $500 power cord and extolling the sound signatures, when 8 feet above their head is a crappy splice box making that house line connection with a three cent partially oxidized wire nut.
Or better yet the outlets power line is connected simply by an old style 1/8th inch wide spring clip. But that magic rope IS working!
I believe cables/interconnects can and do have an effect. But like the true back bone of audio it's been hoisted up to a mystical almost religious level. Marketing level!!!
There are cheap cables and high quality cables. But there is a point ($$) where some of us start to think this is starting to sound like bull dinky. So count me in on not being as much a naysayer but skeptical snake oil purchaser.
Cables/interconnects are part of the whole system. Not the magical money rope that sits between boxes. If using a $1000 speaker wire is the deal breaker on your stereo, then you've got bigger issues with your setup than wire.
I'm actually not sure what a "cable naysayer" is. :)
Here are conclusions by the High Priest himself , Roger Russell:
"We have been told by advertising that the exotic speaker wires offer fabulous advantages over ordinary lamp cord. It would seem reasonable that using this same wire for lamps would also enhance their performance. In the same vein as wire literature, you can have your lamp reproduce light with the full spectrum color fidelity of natural daylight, finally allowing you see light the way it should be seen and bring out the natural performance of your lamp. It could offer greater warmth, detail, brilliance, definition and speed by providing wider bandwidth and reduced skin effect. It can provide a distortion free illumination that reduces eye strain, resulting in clearer vision and optimal color perception. "
It's a ridiculous analogy, since it makes no sense. Equivocation of a light bulb vs. a high-performance audio system is more than absurd; it's pathetic if claimed to be insightful.
He was being sarcastic not literal.
most folks don't preference their sarcastic comments with the word "actually".
You clearly don't recognize a complete tongue-in-cheek comment. Hook, line, and sinker! :)
As trolls go, you're a pretty funny one.
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