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In Reply to: RE: I'd take their advice... posted by Ivan303 on June 26, 2017 at 19:24:12
> In truth, it's a crap shoot and Harbeth is likely 100% right.
I don't think it's a crap shoot if you remember one thing: Wire is basically just wire. Select a good oxygen free copper heavy gauge stranded wire and you should be perfectly satisfied. This is the wire that I use with my Thiel CS3.7 speakers and I couldn't be happier:
KnuKonceptz Kord Ultra Flex Blue OFC 10 Gauge Speaker Wire
I have been at this hobby for many years and can tell you that the cheap wire recommended here is inferior. I have several times tried to cut corners with cheap wire like this. You will not realize the potential of your system if you use it. There is a huge difference when you move up the wire ladder. The fat zip cord mentioned here is on the bottom rung.
Try any middle of the line commercial wire and you will immediately hear the improvement. I have never heard Harbeth but based upon experience with 2 way speakers my recommendation would be Harmonic Technology Pro 10 speaker cable. It has excellent clarity, robust bass and very well balanced.
...wire and cables do make a difference, although there are diminishing returns, like with all things audio.
Cheap wire is not going to make your music sound it's best.
For me wire is the last component I try after my system is chosen. The differences are usually not dramatic but they can't be ignored.
There is decent wire made by good companies (AudioQuest, Cardas, Straight Wire, Nordost and many others) and better wire as you move up the price scale.
However, for best results, try some different brands and models in your system to hear what they do.
Try putting in a new cable, listen for a night and then switch back. Quick A/B testing does not often work at this level.
They do not all sound the same and may add the synergy you are looking for to your system.
Folks who claim that wire is basically just wire with no inherent qualities or differences either have closed minds with no experience of high-performance cables, or don't recognize improved listening cues when evaluating various cables. It's pointless to argue with them, since unless they take the plunge and explore such things, it tends to be a closed-ended debate without resolve.
Those who say one particular wire configuration is garbage, or that another design is uniformly excellent (without taking the amplifier/cable/loudspeaker into consideration as a SYSTEM) are equally close minded.
"Folks who claim that wire is basically just wire with no inherent qualities or differences "
For example? Or, are you just making that up?
Ah, I see.
In John's defense, I'd only say that he did say "oxygen-free heavy gauge stranded wire".
Seriously, some of you guys obsess over non-issues.
It's only a non-issue if it's not important to any given listener.
Caring about wire is no different than paying attention to any other parts within an audio system. Parts and circuits within an audio component, such as I/O jacks, wiring, caps, coils, resistors, chips, etc.
Otherwise, debating about the topic is just a battle of wills, since those who seek tend to find, while others believe that ignorance is somehow bliss.
"Parts and circuits within an audio component, such as I/O jacks, wiring, caps, coils, resistors, chips, etc."
You'll get no argument from me there. But when it comes to speaker cables, once you've got the oxygen-free, twisted pair heavy gauge and high quality connections covered, you're good to go.
Considering your endless tweaking/experimenting and over 12,600 posts about it I really wonder if you ever find time to sit down and listen to music without thinking "Damn, wonder if I could get more 'accuracy' if that carbon fiber outlet cover was red."
Hey, to each his own. But IMO you sure as hell are obsessive :-)
His obsessiveness was acceptable in the Cable Forum, but outside of that venue not so much!
One man's obsessive interest is another man's specialized field of interest. It's only considered obsessive when others object to a specialized field of interest that is considered objectionable for some reason.
In the case of this particular forum, I would rather seek insight from those in Speaker Asylum who actually know what they are referring to based on a specialized field of interest in loudspeakers, rather than from slackers who would rather post uninformed opinions based on supposition or self-aggrandizing pretenses. It's pretty easy to get away with being a dick in Audio Asylum.
I don't require permission or approval to pursue my interest in cables and tweaks as my specialized fields of interest, and know that I've been appreciated over the years for what I've been willing to explore and share in Cable Asylum and Tweakers' Asylum. The few times I've stepped-out on a limb in other forums with hostile naysayers only fuels my interest to gain more insight into the topic rather than be discouraged by disparaging words.
The last time I checked, anyone posting here was already, by definition, nuts and in the asylum. :)
We're all obsessive here. Squeeze the wheeze! Honk, honk!
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah ..........
Same old shit, different Asylum.
And just about everywhere else, or so it seems. ;-)
Dickishness is in fashion!
blind test cables.... and save money...
or believe magazines and get robbed
The, "If you can't hear the difference in cables" arguments...
We've heard them before.
"You've never heard really good cables." Of course we haven't!
"Your system is not 'resolving' enough." Of course it's not!
"You're must not be a 'sophisticated listener'." At my age it's a wonder I can hear at all!
"Cables don't make near as much difference as the high-end cable manufactures would like you to believe they do."
But it's probably the truth.
Recall a number of years ago visiting with a 'name brand' speaker manufacturer who designed and sold very expensive speakers. Couldn't help but notice the outrageously expensive cables he used to demo his speakers at shows. His view? If he didn't use 'mega-buck' speaker cables at shows, a fair percentage of audiophiles visiting his room would not take his speakers seriously.
"At this price point, they expect speakers to be demoed with expensive, high end cables, whether they are worth it or not and the cable companies lets me use the for free for as long as I want."
Didn't dare ask him what he used at home. :-)
In my experience, the smaller the signal the more important the cable.
Tonearm cable? Yep, very sensitive to cables.
Speaker cable? Not so much, IMNSHO. OK, not lamp cord. Power tool cord, maybe? :-)
But seriously, for short runs (1-4 meter?), I'd be happy with home brew Canare Star Quad (4S11) at less that $1 a foot. And if a mega-buck cable sounds a lot 'different', it's likely because it's doing something to the signal that is NOT necessarily good!
> His view? If he didn't use 'mega-buck' speaker cables at shows, a fair percentage of audiophiles visiting his room would not take his speakers seriously.
I agree wholeheartedly with him. If I were demonstrating and selling speakers I'd use very expensive speaker cable, but I only listen to speakers. Therefore, I'm only concerned about the quality of my wire. That's why I use high-quality wire.
I had a friend bring over some Cardas speaker wire that was the size of a garden hose and we connected it to my speakers. He felt that my speakers were borderline unlistenable with my inexpensive wire but became quite listenable with his expensive Cardas wire. I couldn't hear the difference. I guess I'm lucky that way. ;-)
in high school who married the first date he had. She was 300 lb's but he couldn't be happier. Saved him a lot of time looking around.
Sorry I left that one out.
The major difference is that I've tried the others and I settled on my inexpensive speaker cable after hearing the expensive stuff in my own system. Therefore, I made an informed choice based on personal experience.
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