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In Reply to: RE: Speaker positioning - trying to use 4 speakers posted by ishawsouthamerica on December 01, 2016 at 07:16:22
I think you can have what you want. As an actual owner of the speakers (different models, but powered bi-polar towers) I can tell you that for a dance party, some time spent setting the levels will most likely yield a great result.
First, remember that bi-polars need breathing room. The farther away from the corners you put them, the better they will sound. In my room, the BP 2002 towers are 3 feet away from the walls behind and to the side. If you don't have that much room, try to get them placed as far as possible from the walls. If you have more, then that's even better.
Second, get yourself an ANALOG meter to measure the sound levels and make sure you match the levels at "C" weighting... I also think it's "fast" but I have to get back to you on that. You have a choice between "fast" and "slow" and if memory serves, the measurements should be taken at "C" and "fast". You will be truly amazed at how loud bass levels are compared to mids and highs.
Also, use a setup disc or digitize that disc to emanate from the SOURCE. Internal preamp or receiver signals are better than nothing, but not as effective as what you will get from your actual source.
We have had parties that sound like a South Beach dance club. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to get the same results with 4 subs.
You haven't mentioned what your front end equipment is. That will make a big impact on the sound. What kind of processing are you doing to the sound?
Also, how are you amplifying them? DefTech speakers love power. the more you give them, the better they sound. Despite being pretty efficient, my BP2002 towers get better the more power I pump into them, particularly the midrange. When I had, for a brief time, enough channels of amplification and I removed the jumpers, feeding 165 watts (passive bi-amping) into each set of binding posts, the clarity at ludicrous volume was amazing and at moderate volumes just seemed cleaner (although that could have been in my head).
I have included a link to the analog sound level meter that I have (mine is the Radio Shack branded one) that Velleman made after Radio Shack stopped making them. It's cheap and when used correctly, will reward you with exponentially better sound quality from your system, especially when trying to level-match two different sizes of speaker.
Follow Ups:
MannyE - Wow! Thanks for the great response!
Luckily, I have a great room in which to set up my system and give it breathing room. Similar to your advice, I've read a number of things indicating that these speakers need room to breathe!
When you talk about a setup disc or digitized disc to emanate from the Source, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain? Perhaps your talking about the sound/music file source. Although I'm guilty of sometimes using Spotify on my phone, which I understand has crappy audio quality, I do have the ability and have wondered if it would be worth downloading high-quality audio files.
What I don't have, yet, is a really great power source. My two options at this point are an old Pioneer receiver. It runs 125 watts per channel and must have been Pioneers top-of-the-line when it was new because it does seem to do a nice job and the spec sheet is impressive for a consumer-grade unit. I also have a much newer Yamaha. But, it's rated at 105 per channel and is not impressive. It's a 7.1 surround receiver that tries to do everything.
I've been scouring Craiglist and other places for a good and powerful amp. Turns out, it's difficult (and expensive) to find a good, clean amp that delivers the kind of power you've referenced. But, I'm looking.
I'm a novice at this. So, if you've got any suggestions of what I could look for in an amp or other system components (preferably something that I can find used), I'm all-ears. I'm eager to get rid of the receivers I have and go to something that is more dedicated and better quality. I don't have an unlimited budget, but am willing to spend some money to make these new speakers live up to their potential.
Thanks again for your post!
The Yamaha might work, you didn't mention if the Pioneer was a surround receiver, from the comments I assumed not. With the Def Tech's powered you may not need that much power from the Yamaha, if it has preamp outputs the better, then you can easily add an external power amp. Hook all 4 speakers to the Yamaha, like front left/right for one set and rear left/right for the other. Then you can use the Yamaha's internal speaker set up to balance them, maybe even use the auto speaker set up for the additional room equalization. Then when having the party run the receiver in "all channel stereo" mode so all the speakers are driven with same level. Set all speakers to "large" inside the Yamaha so they get the full signal. Yamaha usually offers a good selection of DSP modes you might find useful, "hall", "disco" etc. Maybe see if one has better bass reinforcement.
You didn't mention a budget for amps. I'd watch for used Adcom, you can usually find a 200x2 either gfa 555 or 5500 around $500.00 give or take. Great value at the used prices. For new and on a budget you might consider the Emotiva, or, maybe some of the Class D offerings out there. If you really want them to sing and still be able to stream in one package, look at the Parasound Halo integrated amp.
For better quality streaming Tidal has a high res service that's about $20.00 a month. If you can only do Spotify, many HT receivers have some type of digital enhancement to expend response of mp3, it may work on streaming, not sure. I've found streaming from Pandora and Amazon Prime to be not so good by comparison to CD, not used Spotify.
To answer your first question about source. I mean whatever you are using for music playback. It doesn't matter what it is (and you won't get any judgments from me as to how you play your music...it's your party and you can Spotify if you want to).
What I mean is that both your Pioneer and Yamaha probably generate test tones to help make sure that you are getting the correct levels at the listening position. Those are great to use as a baseline. In fact, when I am setting up a system, I will start with those tones. But those tones are NOT coming from your iphone, or CD player or music server and until you calibrate using tones from the music source (again..whatever it may be) you're not getting your money's worth. I also try to go manual (using the sound level meter and setting the levels manually) rather than using the microphone some newer receivers come with. If your Pioneer is older, it probably wont have auto-calibrate anyway.
As far as amplification goes, I think you are OK with those levels. Keep in mind that the sub-woofers in the Deftechs are powered (assuming both those models are powered towers) and don't need an amp.
So if the Pioneer has 5 channels of amplification, I would go with that one. I had one of those big Pioneers back in the day and always found them a little too bright. Of course, that's a nitpick..they were great receivers, especially the Elite line. I wouldn't bother with bi-amping because you're looking at a lot of cable already and bi-amping will increase the amount of interconnects and speaker cables to staggering levels.
I would also, if your speakers allow, remove the jumpers to the low end (my BP-2002 have 3 sets of binding posts; high, mid and low) and use the Pioneer's LFE and/or sub output. That way the receiver is handling bass management and you have more control. If you only have the mid and high speaker connections, then you also probably have the LFE and/or sub input on the plate amp on the BP towers. Since you're not using the system for movies, and IF you have a choice, use the sub input rather than the LFE input, which is supposed to be for movies.
Always make sure the Pioneer is set to "large" in the speaker setup. Let the internal crossovers of the Def-Techs decide what frequencies go where. I would also call DefTech and ask where to set the bass management. They have some of the best customer service I have ever experienced.
The only other thing that made me worry when I started was what to do with 2 (in your case 4) subs and only one LFE output. Just get three splitters and make 4 outputs then run the RCA cables to each sub. Easy Peasy. I never did 4, but I didn't seem to have any problems with 2 and I doubt you will "degrade" the signal much if at all. You're not sitting by yourself in front of two speakers doing critical listening anyway, you're dancing and having fun. So relax and have fun. :)
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