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...I've narrowed it down to these three (with a couple 'outsider' ones, possibly):
• HSU VTF-2 MK4
• Outlaw LFM-1 Plus
• Epik Legend
(Outsiders: A Def Tech SuperCube 4000 or SVS SB-12 NSD — I decided on these due to their sealed design and small footprint)
So now, a little background...
Paradigm S2 V2 Monitor Speakers (bass is solid down to 50Hz in-room)
Rega Elicit 3
Rega Saturn CD Player
Well-Tempered Amadeus w/Dynavector XX-2 MKII
Graham Slee Reflex M w/CineMag 3440a SUT
Just ordered: The DSpeaker Anitmode 8033c to use with whichever Sub I decide to go with.
My main area of listening is a 12x20x8 space. About 2/3 of the way across the back wall, it opens-up to the kitchen/dining area that is 11x20x8 for a 3,600+ cu. ft. total area we're dealing with.
Rationale for choices:
This will be for a 2-CHANNEL ONLY setup; no Home Theater. I have scoured the Internet and about every forum to research opinions on these particular subs. Now, unfortunately, most, if not all of the discussions always center around mostly HT use, which doesn't help me much (sometimes it does, but rarely).
I am really looking for the most musical sub, ideally. I would like to pressurize the main area, but the highest SPLs are not the primary concern, since music is the only consideration here.
Most music centers around just about every type of classic/alternative rock, jazz (think Bill Evans) and mostly small ensemble classical works (some orchestral, though).
I realize that all of these options are different designs, woofer sizes, etc., but I have weighed these differences; I would just really like to hear opinions on which would be ideal for my application as described above (or if anyone has used any of these), given the room size(s), and the fact that it is for 2-channel only. Add to that, would it make much noticeable difference performance-wise, since I'll be utilizing the Antimode regardless of what I purchase?
I am ready to pull the trigger on one...just don't know which. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I have an Outlaw sub in use with my 5.1 setup. Its fine if your budget doesn't allow you with a Vandersteen
the more the better.
Three most important things in Audio reproduction: Keep the noise levels low, the power high and the room diffuse.
Stuffing my 27hz tuned sub's port, it sounded no "faster" than when it was ported. It just sounded like I lost 6db below 50hz.
You obviously didn't stuff it with the "right material" like ACA (AudioPhool Club of America) sanctioned Acousta-fiber liberally soaked in AudioPhool Holy Oil Mist. That would have sped up your bass waves to warp factor five - at least...maybe even warp factor 7 if you run an AudioPhool power conditioner with your sub plate amp...You also have to make sure your speaker cable wire strands are twisted in the right direction - clockwise if you live in the northern hemisphere and counterclockwise if you're down under. If you didn't do that and verify that your speaker cables were suspended off the floor exactly between 6.5 and 6.75 inches, it's no wonder your bass didn't speed up - your electrons were slowed down too much in the cable...
...preparing to disengage sarcasm hyperdrive....DISENGAGE...
4 of those would rock most any kasbah and you can do distributed bass with 'em.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
I believe you should also look at the Velodyne DD offerings. They have the lowest THD in the industry and excellent room-correction capabilities. They are very fast and have powerful amps in them. Prices are pretty reasonable for gently used ones on Agon...
I'm Mick Wolfe's friend that built a pair of 12" Rythmik down firing subs. After asking around some I selected the Rythmik on the recommendation of Kevin Carter at K&K Audio. I also liked the idea that while you can buy factory built, you can also build your own cabinets. Since most of my components are home brewed I took the plunge. Cabinets are primarily Baltic birch ply with cherry veneered ply panels and bubinga solids for the top, framework and legs. Mine are sealed cabinets but the option exists for ported for those whose primary use would be home theatre. They took a while to build because I wanted them to like like fine furniture that performed like a quality audio component. The plate amp has a multitude of controls to dial in the sound for you particular room which seemed a bit daunting at first but was actually pretty easy to adjust to my environment. I think the Rythmik subs deliver quality bass that is very fast and controlled (nothing slow and flabby). It does not get in the way of the midrange and high frequency as some subs may, making their performance all the better. I built a pair of NHT 1259 subs that I used for a number of years and while I felt their perfomance was good, the Rythmiks are far superior in performance and musicality. On vinyl, "This One's For Blanton" with Duke Ellington and Ray Brown is great test for the capability of these subs. The acoustic bass and piano sound incredible. A couple of pictures of the subs are on the K&K Asylum that Dave Davenport posted on the gallery part way down the page of current postings.
Thanks for sharing, big muck!
I'm currently asking around to see if anyone wants to sell a Rythmik (FV12) sub. I think I'm pretty sold on this at the moment after getting everyone's opinions, based on my specific needs, of course, which is music first.
Also, thanks everyone for their responses. All of this really helps!
You may want to look at Vandersteen 2Wq for 2 channel application.
Hey guys. Thanks much for your responses. The Vandersteen and Velodyne recommendations are outstanding ones; unfortunately, they're both WAY out of my budget, though I wish I could entertain the thought.
I narrowed-down those on the list because they're reportedly and consistently reviewed well, and my spending limit is around $600 or so; it's just I'm not certain as to what would be ideal out of the bunch for my room/size. I only want musical, tight, accurate bass to blend (no localization) with my speakers, which are pretty solid down to 50Hz.
Consider running two modest subs wired in stereo to minimize localization & distortion, you would need two Antimodes, but with your large rectangular room a single sub would need to be quite stout to sound right.
Thanks Craiger for confirming this for me. I was really quite worried about a large/stout sub in my room, for fear of it being too much (i.e., 'boomy' or overbearing). It would appear that this would not be the case with a well designed, larger sub. At least I think or am getting the impression that this assumption is correct.
and if you can stretch your budget, this;
Funny you mention the Rythmiks. I'm waiting to see when the VF version's redesign will be coming out (maybe EOY?). That was at the top of the list for a while.
My friend just built a pair of Rythmiks. He's an excellent woodworker and used exotic wood veneers. The fit and finish of the cabinet interior was a work of art in itself. This project took probably 3 months, but the end result is amazing both sonically and visually. The versatility of the plate amp alone is mind boggling.
Hi Mick, how've you been?
Ugh, I'm really starting to jonez for the Rythmiks. I think I might have to put it on the list again. I'm not much of a DIY-er, though I did work on an IsoBlue 5-tier, perfectly spec'd clone in maple that turned-out a real stunner (that was when I owned Naim gear exclusively). Cabinets though? Mmmm, probably not.
The equalization offered at this price point is generally limited. This will make its integration almost seamless.
Just received the Antimode 8033c yesterday (also have the cable adapter). Now, all I need is a sub ;)
Thanks everyone for your responses. I have a lot to think about. Right now, I'm pretty up-in-the-air, but leaning heavily toward HSU; or, if I can wait, a Rythmik FV series (unless anyone wishes to sell theirs).
I see your doing this the right way by purchasing the 8033c first and then looking for a sub. I have had a number of subs over the years (Def Tech, SVS, Velodyne,Hsu,etc...) as noted most are geared to HT use by lifting frequencies in the 80hz-40hz range. The two best that I have used for music are the Omega Deep Hemp and Shelby+Kroll Woofer Monitor.
I'm currenly using 2 S+K Woofer Monitors with matching Nano Monitors and an Antimode 8033s. So far the best bass I have had in my 15x21x8 room. I have only used the 8033s on the S+K's so I can't comment on how it will sound with the other subs.
I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but in my experience a 8" - 10" sub will work best for music. Most 12" and larger subs, in my experience have been to slow to keep up and lag a little behind. Perhaps there is now a 12" that will work well? Dunno...
"Grow older not up !!!"
I recently helped a friend put together a new stereo. He has a pretty small space in NYC, so wanted to keep the gear footprint as small as possible. We decided upon the following, for speakers:
Satellites: Silverline Minuet Supreme Plus
Sub: Rythmik F12G
His primary source is a Mac Book (only analog output for now, but soon, he'll get a DAC), and amplification is a ShengYa hybrid tube/ss integrated.
He's absolutely thrilled with the sound, and though the Rythmik is a big, powerful sub, he was able to get it very nicely blended with the little Silverline speakers, resulting in good, well balanced sound filling the room. He does have a good sense of "live" sound, as he just retired from working at Carnegie Hall for over 20 years. I've known his ears for years, so if he says it sounds wonderful, it does! (too bad I'm all the way across the country just now, and can't get out there straightaway to hear it myself). Putting this system together was a telephone/email collaboration. :)
By the way - I just upgraded the sub for my laptop computer's speaker system. The new sub is a HSU STF-1 (their smallest), and I must say, I'm impressed with this relatively-not-so-little "little" sub! (just an eight inch woofer, inside a good sized bass reflex cabinet). I've got it nicely blended with a pair of NHT Super Zeros, and along with the new Schiit Bifrost DAC, this little computer speaker system is sounding great! :)
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