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I am in the process of selling my entire main system, which was weighted toward music and getting long in the tooth, in favor of a more modest home theater system. So it's out with the Vienna Acoustics Mahlers, Oratorio and Beethovens. Now where to start on replacements? Starting from scratch, I am going to focus strictly with the speakers first.
I want a 5.1 system with the fronts, center, and surrounds all the exact same speaker. This is going to mean 5 monitor speakers on stands, with a subwoofer filling in below 60Hz or so. The room is midsized (16 by 19 ft with 9 ft ceilings) and I think such a setup would be adequate for my purposes and still provide reasonable results with 5.1 channel SACD.
I came across a site, Parts Express, that sells speakers that look very much like what I am looking for - simple but ostensibly well-built cabinets with a cherry finish, with what appear to be decent drivers in an MTM configuration. (See link.)
Does anyone have any experience with simple kits such as these? I know it is probably wishful thinking to expect them to truly compare to speakers costing two or three times more. The amount of construction needed to complete the "kit" seems so trivial that I doubt there is any sweat equity involved. And, of course, resale would be practically impossible.
And yet I am not concerned with all that so much if I can get better performance at a lower price. $2200 for 5 of these seems tempting, but also seems an awful risk. Even buying just one on spec is not something I'd do without some sort of unbiased opinion. Thought I'd see if anyone has tried speaker kits like this before and if it's worth the effort. I prefer not to go the used route this time and accept older speakers with blemishes no matter how good they sound. And I certainly don't want to go to a boutique store and buy monitors with a single 5" woofer for $2000/pair.
Any advice on where to start would be appreciated.
Follow Ups:
I just finished putting together a pair of the Parts Express Tritrix speakers a couple of weeks ago, The kit ran just $200 for everything. My daughter is 13 and I decided to build her a pair so she will leave my system alone , anyway they sound a heck of a lot better than I expected . I used an old Yamaha CR-640 receiver from my workshop to drive them with about 40wpc,ipod as a source and they sound very very nice, she is as happy as can be. Now I won't have to hear Justin Beiber playing through my system anymore ! depending on what your looking for you might be very surprised. I had them hooked up to my SAE amp for a couple of hours at about 75 or 80wpc and they sounded very strong. clarity was good, pretty deep base for such small drivers but overall they were well worth the money and few days of DIY fun for dad. If nothing else I already have my daughter interested in something better than those cheap MP3 dock stations and such ! Parts express has the monitors that match up with the Tritrix mini towers. you may want to check into them for the heck of it .
The PE Usher kits, designed by Joe D'Appolito (who also did design consulting on some of Usher's high-end assembled speakers) offer exceptional quality for the price.
You might also check into kit offerings from Madisound (especially the Zaph Audio designs) and Zalytron. These all include cabinets.
Dennis Murphy's "Plop in the Box" design (see Murphyblaster Productions) uses the GR Research midbass driver, the BG Neo 3 planar tweeter (a VERY nice unit for the price, and the PE .25 cu ft cabinet. Dennis is an excellent crossover designer, who consults for several small high-end manufacturers.
If you want to build (or have custom-built) your own cabinets, you have many more choices. North Creek offers some very high-end kits with Scanspeak drivers. GR research has some good, economical kits with their own OEM drivers (made by TangBand?). Look also at the various free designs published by Zaph Audio (John Krutke), Lone Saguaro (Lou Carragio), Speaker Design Works (Curt Campbell) and Troels Graveson, among others.
The PE "Tech Talk" discussion board is an excellent forum to inquire about what else is available. A lot of really talented folks hang out there, and most are friendly and helpful.
I second the recommendation of Dennis Murphy. I used his suggested crossover design for what is essentially a Dayton BR-1 system and it transforms this into a different speaker and cures the inherent extreme peak in response at 3200 Hz of the woofer. A standard 12 dB textbook type crossover won't smooth out the response.
Although I have not myself yet bought one, I've been following John K's work ("Zaph") for many years now. I consider him a wizard and a sort of personal mentor for DIY speaker design. This guy is the defacto "guru" and he's given so freely to the DIY community over the years - educating others about speaker design theory and practices.
If you want a kit that will have low distortion and measure pretty much ruler flat and come with directions like where the speakers are best placed, and even design variations for different listening preferences, look no further than Zaph Audio designs at Madisound. For about $200 (no cabinets) to $2000 (complete) you can get speakers that will meet - or even beat - many speakers costing five to ten times more. The cabinetry is not going to be ultra-exotic, but you can always add "bling" finishes to any of his designs - there is no limit to how much a guy can spend on finishing.
Most kits from other suppliers do not have as comprehensive of a crossover design process as what Zaph normally goes through. His website features descriptions (at great length) of his design process, design variations and why he chose certain design choices over others. This is VERY rare information to have - even for a kit. Manufacturers would never provide this level of insight into their designs.
When you buy a Zaph kit, you're basically paying for parts. The design is practically free, which shows this guys love for the hobby. With manufactuers, there is considerable profit margin plus higher overhead costs with marketing, accounting shipping and paying for things like tools, shop supplies and employees. These kits save you that overhead which is why you can get $10K sound for a fraction of the price.
The dollar-for-dollar value of these kits is off the charts. I doubt you will be disappointed.
Cheers,
Presto
It's great how he documents each significant step of the design process. For many of the projects he shows (A) the unfiltered acoustic response and phase of the raw drivers in the intended cabinet, (B) the electrical transfer functions of the crossover filters, (C) the acoustic response and phase of the drivers with the filters in place, and (D) the final summed response of the drivers in the system. Anyone interested in how speakers actually work should study it, whether they are planning to DIY or not.
Yep. You can't beat Zaph's site for hands-on no bull real-world DIY speaker design. The guy has a method that works for him, it works well - and he's really disciplined for a "DIYer". I think to call him a DIYer is actually a misnomer. The guy is a full out designer. His driver comparisons are phenomenal, and as you said, his designs are explained with greater depth and corollary with theory than any other kits/plans on the net. An indispensable tool for any new/intermediate DIYer - it can save one years of being in the dark. A really good way to speed up the learning curve - IF you try and learn what he is teaching. His design mantras are simple but effective. What is neat is how he reveals his "individual considerations" for each design - which of the mantras were essential and which did not make a difference. It's this experience that separates the intermediates from the real gurus.
John Kreskovsky had a site under his name that had so much math and science theory on loudspeaker design it made my head hurt. Some of it is still available at his new site, www.musicanddesign.com. His development of the Nao and his latest undertaking the ICTA just show this guy can take rocket-science math and actually build the rocket.
There are others too, like Jeff Bagsby and Dennis Murphy and quite a few others who have tonnes of experience and have contributed a lot to DIY.
There are all of these guys:
http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/frdgroup.htm
Who have created a number of great free tools and calculators for the DIY community.
And don't forget the crew now over at Parts Express - a company that is a goldmine for the DIYer. They stepped in where Radio Shack stepped out and really raised the bar. Like - a lot!
Yeah, it's a good time to be alive, that's for sure. Having the internet and being able to tap into the minds of others who are more experienced? Priceless. The fact they are so willing to share and take the time to maintain complex sites? Extraordinary!
Some good people out there. That's for sure.
Cheers,
Presto
You would have to buy and cut the wood for the cabinet, but I am pretty sure they would outperform the speakers you are looking at now. There is a forum on the web page to read and ask questions about the various kits. The owner is also very responsive to e-mails.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
Thanks, very interesting. But I am not interested in horn speakers. Also I have minimal finish carpentry skills. And other than a router, drill, and circular saw (plus some simple hand tools), I only have a very rudimentary selection of tools that would be necessary to build cabinets. Building cabinets totally from scratch would be way above my skill level. I want something that will look good with 5 of them strewn around my family room. The Parts Express kit was attractive because it's only barely a "kit" and the boxes appear simple and well-finished. Frankly, the simpler and more unobtrusive visually, the better.
Have you built any of these speakers? If so, was it worth the effort?
No, I haven't, but it's in the future. Keep in mind that the tweeter is a wave guide and that is what makes the speaker a horn, in the eyes of some (but not all). The mid-range/bass driver and the cabinet are not in a horn configuration. The cabinets are all butted together; no tricky joints (but you have a router)! The one thing you do need is a lot of clamps for the gluing.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
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