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In Reply to: RE: "You can often get better results with EQ with a cheap sub than with an expensive sub without EQ" posted by Richard BassNut Greene on January 02, 2009 at 07:55:17
Richard,
I'm laughing about your concept (held by most inmates here it seems) and mine of "cheap". As another inmate once put it, he dubbed me the "cost IS an object" guy. I'll take the compliment. Half the fun for a guy with champagne ears and a lite beer budget is proving that the cost benefit curve goes much lower than many believe....
Anyway, my el cheapo KLH 120W 10" ported sub is about as low as they go. But it does put out appreciable sound down to 20 Hz and from 25Hz that I can hear, and the SPL meter confirms. It picks up sharply about about 28-29 Hz and definitely first peaks in the early 30s. So while its port may be another issue I haven't played with yet, it does the SPL trick well. It just doesn't do articulation well. I don't hear the dreaded chuffing.
As I've said, I'm quite sure I can do better for subs, once I get to the $500-1000 level. Hell, if you believe some of the reviews of Hsu, Outlaw, Onix, a Dayton kit, etc., I can do better as low as $300-500 than I've got currently. I was attracted for years to the VRS-1, which was $1500 and can be had for about $1000, but I suspect that it's now superceded in quality for less by some of the newer models from other manufacturers. It did mate very very well with VR1s, was surprisingly compact and looked great, sigh...
What had me buffaloed was the bewildering array of claims and disputes over config, and features, and sizes, etc. related to subs at any cost, including DIYs. All of which were NOT usefully auditionable in showrooms even were I able to locate them (and you usually can't). Buying on spec and paying the cost of shipping back and forth seemed not just daunting, but counterproductive.
So your interim step of the EQ made a lot of sense, and as I credit you fully, it was right! We'll see how far this goes for benefit now, while I continue to research and mull over better subs.
It would be easy to pass this off as my being just damned lucky. But I really do spend an inordinate amount of time researching and contemplating every move, due to budget constraints and pure orneriness, so I've made very few bad moves in my purchases so far. Most of my tweaks and purchases work very well and even better together. Until I hit the lottery... then watch out!
Follow Ups:
There are many 8" and 6.5" non-ported "subwoofers" that are "lower"My first "real" speakers were KLH 17's many many decades ago, but I suspect some Chinese company bought the KLH logo used today.
A real audible improvement would be from using two (Left and Right) KLH subwoofers.
Adding another identical subwoofer increases maximum output +3 to +5dB (+6dB if both are stacked in one place) ... and left-right subs prevent a standing wave between the side walls that causes a bass null halfway between those walls (where most two-channel audiophiles sit) ... because left and right subwoofers (or left and right full-range speakers) would be out of polarity for that room mode = so no standing wave will occur!
(565 / distance between side walls in feet = center frequency of standing wave null in Hz.
(This is the important side-wall-to-side-wall first-order axial room mode, that will cause a partial null roughly 5Hz. wide measured by the -3dB points, and up to -20dB to -30dB deep at the minimum SPL point exactly halfway between the walls if both walls are equal bass reflectors = way more than anyone needs to know).
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Richard BassNut Greene
"The Floyd R. Turbo of Bingham Farms Michigan"
Edits: 01/02/09
Yes, there are lower freq subs, of course. Yet it does pump out SPLs quite reasonably low for my use, which is exclusively 2 channel music.
My next exploration might be a cheap try at a second sub, maybe a slave if not a matched box. I really wouldn't want another KLH in my room as my wife would go bananas, and given their size and looks, I wouldn't be too pleased myself.
But a couple of smaller slaved subs as an experiment, if I can find them, would be interesting next.
Buy it and tell her you won it in a football pool.
If there's a high pass filter in the KLH sub amplifier, it's probably a single inexpensive capacitor for each channel = 6dB per octave high pass filter.
6dB/octave won't do much, but if you ever play your main speakers really loud, some high pass filtering is useful to protect speakers with small diameter ported bass drivers.
I prefer a 24dB/octave high-pass filter with small satellite speakers, but that's rarely built in to commercial subwoofers, and usually requires an external active crossover.
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Richard BassNut Greene
"The Floyd R. Turbo of Bingham Farms Michigan"
As she knows I don't pay any attention to sports, much less bet on them! She's more likely to do that than I.
The sub's specs list the 24db/octave for the X-over, but do not list the high pass specs for the mains outputs, so I have no idea what that would be.
See my response above for info as to why I truly don't believe running mains through the crappy sub is of any benefit to me, while improving the less demanding bottom end with EQed sub does make sense (and it sounds good in practice too!)
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