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74.12.142.175
i need some help, i can't make up my mind what to get because i don't know much about it.
looking for 2 speakers, resiver and maybe a subwoofer.
thank you all out there for your help
Follow Ups:
Find a decent dealer and listen to some set ups. Not big box. I am not in Toronto so hard for me to recommend but I know there are several that can set him up. Below is a good group to ask. Also take a look at canuckaudiomart.com for good used sales in Toronto area
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/toronto-audiophiles/
You should be able to get a nice system that makes decent music for 2000.00
Ken
Get yourslef an all Rega system, they are pretty much set and forget and they sound darn good!
hey guys, thanks for your help over the last few days...........
so i got a system i think to buy.
mighty mites speakers
ps1000 sub.
yamaha rx 397 reciver
yamaha cdc cd player.......
i like the sound and feel of the system
i'm here in canada, toronto
amplifier $600:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MAPM7001
CD player $300:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MACD5001
turntable $350:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=REP1
speaker $550:
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=114.1
cables:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KK4VS
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=KKPB
Especially the speaker is a screamin' bargain at under $600 for a heavy, well built floorstander that avoids those nasty metal tweeters.
The turntable will blow you away if you haven't heard LPs lately. It will outperform the CD player on a lot of material. And old LPs are cheap and readily available.
There's never been a better time for budget hifi!!!!!!
Enjoy.
and spend the money wisely,I would strongly recommend listening to some 1k speakers to find the one you like.Then the remaining 1k can be used for the amp and the CD player.Get the help of a good retailer,tell him details like your room size,music preferences and related matters that will help him demonstrate the right kinds of speakers.
Of course the opinions of the inmates here are very valuable but your particular taste may not be served.
Good listening!
nt
if you are so inclined. Speaker kits from internet companies could be a decent start (e.g. Madisound) and might save 2-10X the price of buying "off-the-shelf" speakers. Buying on the used market works well too except I'm leery about internet sales, even though I've yet to be burned. (Okay, one otherwise unauditioned amp was a little too bright). If you are planning to integrate with an HT system, get an HDMI 1.3 compliant receiver (Onkyo makes one reasonably priced) but only if you eventually plan on integrating with an HDTV. If there are no display requirements, consider an integrated amp.
There's DIY tube industry as well but I haven't played in that market (yet).
I can't offer any specific advise; I'm not in your budget range.
Linkwitz Pluto - $800
Linktiz Pluto+ subwoofers - $500
Add the preamp/tuner of your choice (speakers are powered), or receiver with pre-outs, or receiver with speaker to line level converters.
Hi again msch:
To expand on my earlier reply, see if this example helps you to understand what is involved. Friends ask my assistance in assembling a total music system (I forgot CD my first post) with a budget of $1K. They both have musical backgrounds with love of a variety of music types but no interest in an "audiophile" approach including imagining, depth of field, bass below 40 Hz, etc. Here is a summary of steps we went through so you might better appreciate the process. Other choices could have been made but fortunately this system works well.
SPEAKERS - to stay within 20-25% of total budget, we had to go used. Also, I knew they would not be interested in a listening "sweet spot" but would like the sound to reach them wherever they sat (or stood) in their family room. Next, I couldn't expect them to use speaker stands so floor standers would be needed. Lastly, with this budget, they would not be buying a powerful amp so efficiency was a consideration. Several options could satisfy these requirements. What I found was a slightly tatty pair of DCM Time Windows in good working order for a fair price. Floor standing, wide dispersion, reasonably efficient, bingo! I ordered new sox (wrap around grill cloth) from DCM, re-oiled the wood caps on top and bottom and had their answer for a total of $200 for speakers that looked and sounded nearly like new.
AMPLIFIER - because they wanted to play phono, FM, CD, and cassettes (needing a tape loop) and space being a consideration, a receiver seemed the best answer. An audio friend recently bought a new Kenwood AV receiver that offered decent sound. So I found a new (benefit = warranty) Kenwood with about 40 WPC but the power supply to drive a 5.1 speaker system (helpful for stereo) discounted from something like $250 down to $200.
CD - at lower price points, I don't believe there is much difference between major brands and we found something marked down from $200 to $150. Like the Kenwood receiver, this included the convenience of a remote control and came with a warranty. The point of the warranty at these prices is that it makes them "throw-away" items. Use the component for the warranty period of one to two years (most solid state component failures occur within the first few hours, after that they are likely to last for years) and toss and replace with something new when it fails. (sorry, I admit this is not a very GREEN attitude but one almost forced on consumers.)
CASSETTE - this was important because they had a large collection of tapes from their previous (all in one) system. Not many options existed but again I found a clean, used 3-head Onkyo deck without many hours for $40.
PHONO - my friend still had a few LPs from years past and he recently began buying more at library sales. During a stop at a yard sale I found a Sansui belt drive turntable and arm with a broken cartridge. The table was clean and the belt appeared to be in good condition so I got it for $15. I wasn't familiar with this particular model but I remembered it receiving high acclaim in the British magazines. I then picked up a new Grado cartridge from a local dealer at a small discount for $60, mounted and aligned the cartridges and my friends were set for $75.
WIRE - a couple of pairs of reasonable quality interconnect, 30' of speaker wire, a surge protector, sales tax where they had to, and they were out for a grand total right around $800.
THE POINTS ARE -
1. there are an almost uncountable number of options in putting together an audio system.
2. this variety can be overwhelming for anyone new to the hobby.
3. the most reasonable way to get started is to find help from someone who has some experience. They can work from your needs and objectives to select what can work reasonably well for you and stay within your budget.
4. I'll add that as you gain knowledge and experience, you should be able to decide on future upgrades yourself.
99% of what i've bought has been used - sounds great.
you can built a $2000 used system that will crap on that smart-ass joe m's system if you know what you are looking at.
let's see what i've got invested:
McIntosh MC-60 monoblocks - $700
Yamaha C-70 preamp - free
theta dspro- genIII and data II - traded for sumo andromeda - which i got for free anyway.
yamaha NS-1000M speakers - $550
REL Q100 sub - $200
Technics SL-1600MK2 - modded by scottrt - $325
denon dl103 - $148
adcom ACE-515 line conditioner - $15
belden 10 gauge speaker cable - $15
total cost - whole $1,953!
if you couple in the stuff that i've bought, played with and sold for a profit - system = FREE!
see ya,
Robby
Wow! I repeat: WOW! But he does need some good advice to achieve such a superior system. I recommend he contact you for suggestions!!
Ken
the funny thing is that i wouldn't buy stuff any different way. it's FUN to hunt this stuff down and play with different combos. sell the stuff you don't dig. if you bought the gear for a deal - you make a profit. it's that simple.
better deals at swap meets and garage sales than craigslist - but if you just want a fair deal - use craigslist. i don't really mess with ebay. you pay top dollar plus shipping on the word of the seller that the stuff works. i like to see/hear stuff before i buy.
some of my better scores (which pale in comparison to other on this board):
thrift stores
MINT Fisher 500S tube reciever - $25
Ampex console with 6bq5 tube monoblocks, preamp and tuner - $10
Dynaco ST-70 w/ PAS4 preamp - $50
Dynaco PAS3 tube preamp - $10
garage sales:
Acoustic Research AR3 with original boxes - $25
swap meets:
Heathkit W-5M tube monoblocks - $60
McIntosh MC225 tube amp - $400
Grommes tube integrated - $5
it's just fun - i've also had a bunch of other stuff from trading.
marantzguy on this forum has me thoroughly beat though. marantz 8bs for $20. that sort of thing. stuff just falls into this lap ;-)
I think you need to live in a high-population area - not Albuquerque! Still , I may start trolling. Who knows?
I did buy a pair of B&W 801 Series 80s for $800 which I am very proud of, but that is just a good - not a great - deal.
Ken
The B&W 80 series are a bargain. I picked up a pair of 802s for £500 about 5 years ago and was stunned at the value for money. I agree with the above posts, second hand is the way forward for putting a system together. Just because an item's not the latest highly marketed rave reviewed kit doesnt mean that its not as good. I picked up a pair of Impulse H2s about 6 months ago (gotta be 15 years old) and they blow away anything that I've heard in 18 years of hifi obsession. Even better once youve got your basics together is to get into kit building. Ive just put my first kit together (Lite Audio LS37 phono stage) and yet again am amazed at the sound for pound situation. It'll take a bit of time and searching to get the system together but that all part of the fun in my opinion. Best of luck.
That's not ebough to buy good music CD's
... for $2000 is a challenge but is indeed possible. You need to think outside the box. If you spend equally on your parts (source, receiver, speakers, and sub) you will get the following.
a) A good $500 DVD/DVD-A/SACD player
b) A good $750 receiver (if it was on sale for $500)
c) A mediocre $500 subwoofer
d) Mediocre $500 speakers
In this case, the speakers and sub are the weak link. You can spend less on sources and receiver and still get comparable sound quality, thus freeing up money for speakers. The difference between $500 and $1000 speakers is very big IMO. You don't GET much for $500, even on sale. $1200 - $1500 is even better. The differences between $1500 and $2000 speakers is smaller, until you get into true high-end speakers starting at around $5K per pair. But remember that $5K high-end speakers are "bottom of the high-end barrel" and sometimes don't even sound as good as a good pair of $2000 mid-fi speakers!!
Here is what I would do.
1)SKIP HD and BLUE RAY FOR NOW. Save money. Buying into new formats will crush your budget. HDMI is only needed if you have a true hi-def monitor. Many people are upsampling with older monitor technology (not true 1080 compatability) and are wasting their time (IMHO) with high buck HDMI products unless they soon plan to upgrade to a true HD monitor (1080p). Many people are mixing HD *compatible* gear with HD gear. A waste of time if you ask me. HD on $2K? You'll end up with junk. Get a good $2k NON-HD system - you'll get better sound, and better DEALS too - since non-HD audio is being sold at crazy low prices. Like this:
http://www.ecost.com/Detail/DVD+Players/Pioneer/DV45A-OBD1/38607220.aspx
2)THE ABSOLUTE BEST sound quality to cost ***VALUE*** on the market is a refurbished or open-box JVC digital receiver from E-Cost.com You can get a 770W receiver (refurbished) for $100 to $250 for a basic model.
3)Also, do not bother getting an expensive SOURCE yet. The difference between a $200 and $500 source is sort of hazy these days. You're either getting into a $150 DVD-A/SACD/DVD-V player or your getting into a $1000 Denon. Sure, there are middle-of-the-road sources. But do they contain better DACs and sound better than the cheaper players, or do they just have MORE FEATURES? Tough question and answers will vary. But trust me. There is nothing wrong with a $200 source in a $2000 system.
4) Get a $450 subwoofer kit from Parts Express. There is not a subwoofer for $450 RETAIL that can touch ANYTHING parts express "Titanic" brand woofers and plate amps can do for the same money. To beat a $450 PE subwoofer kit, plan to spend over $1000 (half your budget). Why buy retail? Retail subwoofers are the single biggest RIPOFF in home audio if you ask me. And every one of them under $2000 sounds like crap to my ears. I've seen $1500 retail subs with cheesy $45 woofers with 20oz magents in them and crappy particle board enclosures. PE uses solid MDF enclosures and good plate amps with some real power behind them. Their speakers have 80 - 120 oz. magnets. I've used these woofers in DIY designs and have first hand experience with them - they are built SOLID. Sure I'm a PE shill. But it's not MY fault they offer such good value on their sub kits, right?! Both my friends are all happy with the subs I made for them from parts express parts - I didn't mind the bass either. (Then again I have different standards. My last "sub" used a $2000 professional amplifier w/ 2000 Watts and a $600 speaker driver).
5) Spend the rest on speakers.
Formula:
Receiver $200
Source $100
Sub $450
Speakers $1200
Leaves you $50 for some speaker wire! :o)
Used speakers for $1200 on Audiogon might be the trick. But since you're using a SUB you can probably get away with a couple nice stand-mount speakers like from Totem acoustics. IF you set your receiver to "small" for the main speakers, your sub is doing all of the bass "grunt" work, meaning you don't NEED tower speakers with 2, 3 or 4 bass drivers in them. Besides. A 12" woofer does low bass better than 2, 3 or 4 bass drivers anyways! If you are running your front speakers 90Hz and up (aka set to small) then one driver that is 6" to 6-1/2" is MORe than big enough!
I know this sounds crazy, but it will work. If you don't like the receiver, (how it sounds) do NOT upgrade to a higher-priced model of digital receiver, since they all bascially sound quite similar within the JVC line anyways. Save up and get a good used "analog power" receiver instead.
Hope this helped.
...that would show ownership, or maybe a contraction... this is simply the plural of a single "CD".
No, really... I'm a lotta fun otherwise...
I think the use of apostrophe is being taught wrong in schools.Why else is this mistake made by most posters? In the forties,we used to get caned in schools for such mistakes!
Well,cheers!
I know I could buy a really good system for that money that would give me and anyone else a lot of pleasure. I don't understand your post.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
You really ought to learn some manners and restrain your arrogance.
N/T
NT
Because I am guessing that someone could crap all over your budget too. Play nice - it isn't a contest.
I hope you were kidding. If not, that's a truly ridiculous statement.....
Oz
As other posters have noted, you haven't given enough info to make any kind of intelligent suggestions. You need to get out and start doing some auditioning and seeing what YOU like and don't like. It would help to find some specialty stereo stores (i.e. beyond the Circuit City and Best Buy category) and see what is available in your price range. Another thing you may want to consider is buying some stuff used. Particularly with speakers, you may be able to get better sound for the money used than new. And speakers in particular are a category where the range of sounds available is very wide.
All the other messages concerning subjectivity aside, I would put the Mackie powered monitor speakers on your short list to audition or consider. They have a great low range, powerful but clean bass, and (perhaps most importantly) they have built in amps. That means that all you'd have to buy would be a CD player (with volume output) and speaker wire (assuming you don't want tape deck, turntable...). You could also get a small mixer, CD player, and wire, if the CD player didn't have volume output.
I recently installed the Mackies in a new performing arts center (as speakers in the Choir and Orchestra room). Even though they're designed as monitors (clean and 'true' reproduction), they are VERY powerful, filling up the room with ease.
Check out the latest issues of the stereo mags -- several of them have compilations and reviews of best products.
Here's the Mackie:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HR824mk2/
Have fun with the search!
Tom
Mackie's don't sound good at all. Please they are fine as an upgrade to PA systems and OK at weddings for DJ's but compared to most mid level entry level speaker they really are not good.
He should find a decent dealer and listen to some set ups. Not big box. I am not in Toronto so hard for me to recommend but I know there are several that can set him up. Below is a good group to ask. Also take a look at canuckaudiomart.com
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/toronto-audiophiles/
You should be able to get a nice system that makes decent music for 2000.00
Ken
thank you for all your help out there............
one more thing what is the difference of a monitore and a speaker?
The word 'monitor' is thrown about quite promiscuously nowadays, so it doesn't necessarily mean a thing, but it might mean:
1. A speaker designed to project the sound straight from itself to a listener a short distance away, probably right in front of it. Not designed to interact with room acoustics in any particularly good way.
2. A speaker designed to be dead-on neutral accurate.
3. A speaker designed to let you hear everything that is on the recording. Not particularly designed to make it sound good, but to put everything where it can be heard.
4. A speaker designed to sound like whatever the record buyer is likely to use to play the record. Some of these are godawful, used to check that the listener using a little boombox will be able to make out enough of the words even when the guitarists and tambourinists are doing their worst.
The good ones combine the better aspects of 1, 2, and 3.
Technically, a monitor is designed for use in recording studios -- the sound engineers listen to the live music as well as recorded mixes through them. Therefore, they are usually designed to be as sonically accurate as possible.
Now, there are other speakers out there whose lineage can be traced directly to monitors. Many of Spendor's classic line (I believe) are so traceable. Such speakers tend to have a relatively neutral and accurate (to some ears) sound.
All my best,
Tom
Most of the "helpful" posters here will balk at replying to an open-ended question like yours. I'd suggest you provide more criteria such as:
• Room size
• Listening preferences (loud rock, jazz, orchestral music)
• Do you need a universal player or just CD?
• How far apart will the speakers be from each other, and will they need to be near a TV (meaning they must be shielded)
• Do you mind buying used equipment or must it all be new?
Based on your initial post, and your budget, I would recommend keeping it simple, and putting your money towards a high quality 2-channel system that includes an integrated amp, CD player, and speakers - leave the sub out for now. For 2k there are hundreds of possibilites, especially if you don't mind buying used gear. Have you ever heard planar speakers, or only dynamic speakers? You could even start with an Outlaw receiver or Onkyo integrated amp and CD player and a pair of Maggies (Magneplanar 1.6s) to get a true taste of high end sound - or the tried and true entry level Vandersteens - but you really should first try to list what's most important to you when listening to music.
Good luck
DKL
Hi msch:
Sorry but I agree with Oz. This is going to take more work on your part. If you spend any time here or other audio sites reading opinions on amps, speakers, etc. you will soon see there is a great range of opinions. So why would a single suggestion from any of us, no matter how well meaning, suit your taste and needs?
Do you have any friends with music systems you enjoy? Have you discussed your search with them? Do you have a local audio club? Some members there may be happy to guide you. Are there any dealers in your area (not big box retailers) where you can audition equipment? Be honest and tell them you are try to learn so you can make educated decisions.
To give you hope, friends ask for my help a few years ago. They had a budget of only $1K and wanted a full system, including ability to play cassettes, LPs, and receive FM. After talking with them about their listening expectations I was able to help them assemble a system within their budget but mainly by buying used.
There are simply too many options in every component category for a beginner to do this without specific help. Help means back and forth dialog, something that would be very difficult through a forum like AA. So, good luck to you.
$600 Outlaw Audio RR2150 receiver
$219 AV123 x-ls speakers
$199 AV123 x-sub subwoofer
$600 Music Hall CD 25.2 cd player
$1618
Although you have picked some nice equipment, you still don't know anything about the OP tastes for music and or roomsize.
The singular most important component for a stereo system are the speakers and therefore should be 2/3 or 3/4 of the budget. The next most important part is the amplification then followed by the source. Why would one pay more moeny for the CD player than the speakers. Thats absurd IMO.
You have no idea:
1)What kind of music he likes.
2)What kind of sound he prefers (bright, warm, detailed?)
3)Size of his listening room.
4)Features that matter to him.
To give wholesale advice is pretty silly in this instance.
Oz
If a poster has actually heard (beyond a very brief listen at a show or shop) the equipment they are recommending or cautioning against it counts as informed advice.
I set some friends up with the Arcam Solo and some inexpensive Axiom Audio monitors and the system turned out quite nice.
*
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." - Albert Einstein
I bought a pair of their small bookshelves (M3Ti). Tried them with our Linn Classik Music and a couple of tube amps that I have on hand, and I think they performs better with tube amplifications IMHO (in case you are wondering: Cayin A-50T, AN Kit 2 and Sansui Model 250 tube receiver). However I've only tried it on one solid state amp so of course you mileage may vary...
No one here can make an intelligent recommendation about equipment to you with the information you provided.
That being said, I do recommend you get out of your Lazy Boy and go do some auditioning at whatever retail source you have available.
Oz
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