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I just found some 10-12 year old Esotar tweeters for a friend in the US. Why are these tweeters so sought efter? The newer Scanspeeks are far better.
Follow Ups:
hi frihed,
merlin has been purchasing the esotar from dynaudio for many years now. i used to purchase them from madisound but after dyn stopped selling the drivers to driver retailers, i was able to start purchasing them directly.
it takes many years of development to find a responsible way to use this difficult to use driver. once you get it, imho, few compare. biggest issue is the efficiency because the use of series resistance without impedance correction and proper q circuitry, will cause the network to ring at the crossover freq and then up ocatve by octave. still one of the finest available at any price if used correctly. and if you do an analysis of the driver and figure out how it works, what it was designed to do and what toe angle to use, you will not want for more extension in the top end. again, just mho.
thank you.
b
While the Esotar is a fine driver for what it is, it is not really close to the better ribbon drivers or especially this driver:http://www.ib-lansche.de/haupt39175.html
I heard a pair of this brand's Goa speakers and the highs are simply much more realistic than anything else I have heard. The same is true for the ion tweeter from Acapella (but this Lansche speaker is overall better, IMO).
as i said below morricab, "each to his own." and i say this in a friendly manner.
i have experimented with many tweeters over the years, used ribbons in production and could not ever get the continous nature (the oneness) that i have now. there is no doubt that there are some drivers that are spectacular in certain ways but they always seem to come with some sort of a trade off that is equally as spectacular. not saying that the esotar has none but it works very well in my 2 way design and it sounds more like a one way than ever before. this continuous, complete sound is my ultimate goal. yours may be different, as i said, "each to his own."
thank you,
bobby
Bobby, I agree with you completely about the Esotars. The problem so many people seem to have in audio today, is that there is an impression that since a driver or other piece of equipment is a newer technology, then it must be better. This is particularly true if the price happens to be more expensive than yesterday's model.
Instead of using their ears and doing a comparison, many 'philes
simply assume that the older piece is less able and less desirable.
IMHO, the Esotar is one of the very best tweets I have ever heard, and I have been a 'phile for over 25 years.
davey, many thanks.
there are a lot of posts in this string that i simply cannot come to grips with.
i will not comment on other's opinions except to say that personal taste is a very complex thing. it takes into consideration the sound, design, cost and perhaps even more. the comments made about the tweeter in comparison to others fall into this type of discussion so i will not comment on this. each to his own.
but in my case, i used the tweeter for 6 years and it was not until the millennium where it began to show its true potential. just throwing a bunch of caps, inductors and resistors in front of it will more than likely just get you further from its absolute potential. in this case for sure, what precedes it and how it is done is equally important to the sound. as i said, it is very difficult to use and if you just try to restain its high output with a big resistor, you will cause the network to ring like mad. this causes the driver to sound dull, shreaky and nasal. careful consideration need be given to how it is used and the quality and types of parts that precede it.
for those that have issues with dust, there are two things i will suggest. using grilles when the speakers are not in use will rid you of this problem. secondly, a 1/4 to 1/2 inch firmly bristled brush used carefully to brush the dust away periodically, works wonders. the silk dome of the esotar is coated with a latex damping compound to damp the dome.
i feel the presentation is worth the additional effort.
thank you,
bobby
back in the day they where good, some folks still live back in the day;)
Why do some companies do that?
As the dust builds up, it adds mass to the dome. Plus a little dampening. So it helps the sonics.
Actually, it is a damping material. Wish it was not sticky.George
only tweeter that i've heard that's better is the ion tweeter in accapella speakers.esotar is musical, evenhanded, and sweet; digital rarely is, so it usually is a nice match to digital playback.
Scroll down about half way.....MERLIN VSM LOUDSPEAKERS-> > > I had the Merlin VSM (and the smaller TSM) in my (former Toronto) store for around a year, in 1998-1999. I auditioned them in different rooms and with different electronics, sources, cables etc. The results were all basically the same; I did NOT like them. They were noticeably cleaner and smoother than average, and also had excellent outer detail, but they were harmonically lean, dry and analytical, lacked both weight and impact in the bass and they were also compressed in dynamics. In other words, they sounded "dead" to me.
I have a working theory of the primary reason why they sound the way they do; They use a Dynaudio tweeter. To be blunt- Virtually every speaker I've ever heard that uses Dynaudio drivers has the same problems, more or less, as described above. This has been my experience no matter how the designer utilized them, and no matter how much the particular Dynaudio drivers cost, and the VSM (Esotar) tweeters are extremely expensive. < < <
No speaker is perfect (at least not that I've heard) and the Merlins are no exception. Having Merlin VSM-M w/ the upgraded Bam, I can stretch my imagination to understand how they may sound lean and dry to some depending on the components they are matched to. However, the viewer complains of a lack of dynamics and that they must be played loud to "come alive". This is contrary to my experience. I have never found the Merlins to be lacking in dynamics, but, more importantly, they sound more alive to me at moderate volumes than loud. In fact, I think they sound better when not played at ear splitting volumes. True, there could be an explanation that my modestly powered tube amp may be shifting to a class B operation when the decibels are pushed and could account for a less pleasant experience, but I had the same impression when I used a digital amp at 250 watts per channel with plenty of headroom. I'm not saying the reviewer didn't hear what they heard; I'm just perplexed at what they heard because that particular aspect is so inopposite to my own experience and impression.
let me address:lean? no
dry? no
analytical? no
lean & lacked weight in the bass? ABSOLUTELY! (but, its a TWEETER!!)
compressed in dynamics? nolisten to a merlin or a rockport and you'll find i'm correct.
joe,
gee thanks for bringing that up.
lol!
but lets be fair, the rooms this dealer had were caverns in an old building's basement with little damping and small area rugs, at least when it was there. and you and he are discussing 9 or 10 year old versions of both models, the se. the volume of the rooms suggested to me, he needed a totally different speaker and if you look at what he likes, you'll get the drift. the milleniums sounded much fuller and smoother again, the mms and mxs much smoother and fuller over the ms and the mme and mxe, much smoother and fuller again.
thanks for taking me down memory lane.
lol.
bobby
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/704gershman/Gershman Acoustics claim they prefer the sound of the cheaper Esotec to the Esotar and use them in this speaker. So, it could be a matter of taste.
The reason both of these tweeters sound good on digital might be because they are rolled off on top rather than extended.
“The speaker's tweeter is Dynaudio's superb Esotar 2 1.1" soft-dome unit, also used in Dynaudio's Confidence C4 speaker…”
http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/D25fig4.jpg
http://www.merlinmusic.com/images/grph4.gif
If you have a chance to listen to esotar's ( not the same as esotec's) in speakers like the SF Guarneri's or Merlin's or in
Rockports you will be easily able to tell why these speakers utilize this amazing driver.
nt
What makes them so special is that Dynaudio no longer sells them to the DIY community. Simple economics, scarcity creates demand.
I had a pair of Esotec's and found them possesing nothing special. A dome is a dome is a dome IMHO.Spitty and fizzly. But a bit less so than cheaper domes. Rolled off highs made them sound better.
1) Did you try throwning a wool blanket over the tweeters?2) Did you forget to take your hearing aids out?
3) If I've told ya once I've told ya a thousand times - ya gotta get that cauliflower ear infection cleared up before you do any critical listening !!
4) Come on rock!!! Now get back in theah and show em whatcya got!
> > > Did you try throwning a wool blanket over the tweeters?I did cover them with varying layers of toilet paper after i tried making them sound good with caps, coils and resistors. They just weren't for me like many other domes i've tried. I like the $30 morel sound better but that's just my opinion.
Choosing a good driver to mate with those expensive dynaudio's is not easy. I used a very peaky (and also exepnsive) Eton that may have been part of the overall problem. Regardless, i didnt miss them when they were gone.
I'd pick a $2 piezo over the Esotec. Maybe it't the cauliflower ear.
nt
guillotines, rear naked chokes, hammerfists, straight right hands, triangles, spinning back fists, and roundhouse kicks to the head..
'Mondo and godzilla feel like only pawns in game of life'Just kidding Mondo
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