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70.57.175.178
I am interested in these as a change from planars I am presently
using. There are no local dealers and need opinions as to sound,
depth, staging, timing. Possible comparison to Maggies 1.6.
Thanks in advance.
Follow Ups:
Jazzbeat, The F3 is a newer speaker. I suspect the folks here who are familar with it are few and far between. You might do a post on Audiogon where Tyler advertises. You're more likely to get some specific responses. I've got no irons in this fire, but Tyler should not be dismissed out of hand just because he is small. One of the benefits of Tylers speakers is the availability of drivers should he go out of business. This cannot be said for a lot of other small, and large for that matter, manufacturers. Look at what happened when Dynaudio stopped selling drivers to speaker builders and small manufacturers. Own a set of those speakers and fry a driver - good luck on finding a new one! That fact alone has kept me out of the market for many of the newer speakers. Good luck with your inquiries.
.
Hi Jazzbeat, how are you? I recently purchased a pair of Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System II's. The speakers are breaking in rather nicely and I am thrilled with my purchase. In this relative price range I have owned Martin Logan Aerius i's, PSB Gold i's and Soliloquy 6.2's. These speakers top all of the aforementioned in terms of build and sound quality. Mine are still breaking in and I am not using my best electronics due to a malfunctioning piece but I am extremely happy with them. I have a feeling these are going to be in my system for a long time to come. In fact, I liked the Fronts so much that I laid out the extra cash to have my center finished in the Redwood Burl as well!! Not an inexpensive thing to do but as I said these will be here for awhile….. So far the Tyler’s have the snap that I was missing after giving up the stats. They are very fast and yet they have the midrange warmth and bass slam that I couldn’t get with the Logans. The PSB and Soliloquy speakers gave me the dynamic punch that I was longing for while owning the Stats but they never gave me that top end sparkle and midband I so desired. I feel that the Ty’s fill all of these qualities that I’ve been looking for. They also throw a very nice soundstage in the vertical and horizontal plains. They are starting to sound a little more extended front to back but I really have to wait to get my tube system up and running before I can judge how well or how poorly they will perform with that. I have never had much success with depth as my system performs double duty with HT and stereo listening. I have a large 50 inch RPTV in between the speakers.I know I have not really answered your question regarding the F series speakers but I have never heard them. I have listened to Maggies on several occasions and they have just never been my cup of tea. I actually chose the Martin Logans over the Magnepan 1.6’s four or five years ago. But, as we all know this matter is entirely subjective. With Tyler’s return policy you really can’t go wrong. I was a little apprehensive about going with a mail order dealer too, especially since my only true exposure was on Audiogon. Some of my wisest audio purchases have been from mail order direct establishments, however. They are as follows: Outlaw Audio Pre/Pro for my HT, ACI Titan sub, Signal Cable speaker and interconnect cables and the Tyler Speakers. Needless to say I am extremely grateful for the internet!! As far as the other poster well, pay him no mind. He is judging something he has never heard. This is truly ridiculous IMHO.
Good Luck.
Greg
PS Ty is truly a Great guy to talk with so give him a call and he will help you out with any questions that you may have. He will not pressure you into a sale and is willing to discuss gear with people too. He is a true audio enthusiast that is eager to please his customers. BTW, he only usually attends two shows a year, CES and the Rocky Mountain. Perhaps that is why you don’t see Tyler speakers winning DIY awards? LOL.
Nice response. I enjoy reading feedback from audiophile's who've actually heard a particular item. This is the only kind of feedback worth reading. Speculation and assumptions are based on fiction and are not real.
Hi gme109, thank you for the kind reply. Those look like a very interesting set of speakers that you have there!! I bet they sound great!! Anyway, I believe that there are a lot of fantastic products available in all price ranges. I would love to own many of them and try them out but I also know that this is far more then I can financially handle. Some people are just very insecure in general and have to bash other people so that they may feel good about themselves, or their purchases. This is quite sad and very pathetic indeed.
Best Wishes
GregS
Here is an example of a pedigreed speaker from a small manufacturer.
It, and its stablemate, both won the Iowa Diy Competition.
As an ex speaker building hobbyist, I can tell you that there are no fussier people then the DIY crowd.At its very first public showing, the Veracity HT3's earned first place in the "Unlimited Class" at the annual speaker competition. This was the second year in a row a Veracity model earned top honors. Last year, the Veracity QW's earned the top score awarded.
Take a good look around Jazzbeat, Tylers are not inexpensive, and IMHO, you can do LOTS better
How can you say something sounds better than somthing else, if you haven't heard it? Experiential knowledge carries more weight.
We are talking a two time DIY contest winner here.
I talked to several of my friends who attended the show who heard it, and have also heard the Tylers.
These friends go to almost EVERY show audio related, and have been doing it for years.
I dont see any Tylers winning, do you ?
All I see for the Tylers is questionable "reviews" on AudioReview/
Easy enough for any manufacturer with dynamic ISP.
I could write all the "reviews" myself easily.
Dude, this aint my first rodeo.
A few clarifications. Last year's Iowa DIY had only one speaker that was even in the HT3's price range. The majority of the speakers were fairly inexpensive 2-ways. Not much of a competition for an high $ 3-way. I was there :) Secondly, the year before that the HT1 tied with another speaker that I designed that was quite a bit less expensive (in terms of parts cost). The ad copy should read "co-winner".As far as Tyler Acoustics keep in mind that many large companies started out small. Experience will certainly help but I can also name designers who've been in this business for several years who still don't know much about speaker design. I've seen things recently that had me rolling on the ground laughing. Some of them don't even know how to take basic measurements yet alone be able to correctly interpret them.
I also know DIY builders who are employed in other non-audio professions that are quite talented when it comes to building speakers. Many audiophiles underestimate what can be done if you have the time, good design software, and measurement capability. Just being a relative unknown entity doesn't mean a person isn't capable of producing very good results.
Tyler seems to have an awefully good "word of mnouth' reputation in the audio comunity and doesnt spend tons of money advertising, they must be doing soemthing rite?? I havent heard either speaker so I dont have an opinion on which is better, all I can say is that both companies seem to offer alot of speaker for the money. I donno how you can say the Salk's speakers are better than the Tylers if you havent heard the Tylers?? To me Tyler seems to offer a very fair price for the quality of speaker they are offering. Just look at the variety of finishes available and the quality of the drivers they use, then compare the prices to the bigger more well known brands and i think youll find that Tyler are very fairly priced and if they sound as good as people have bneen saying they are a downright bargain. I was very interested in the Linbrook Sig System 2 when i was shopping for new speakers a while back and was amazed when I found out they only cost $3200! Seems like an aweful lot of speaker for that money compared to what the more well known brands like B&W, JmLabs or Wilson charge for a similar speaker. I would love to get a chance to hear the Linbrook suig 2's anyone in the NYC/long island area got a pair??
Funny, in my opinion they pollute AudioGon with ads.
I get very annoyed reading them.
I just breeze on past w.o clicking on them though.
Hey, you know how it goes, you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you cant fool all of the people all of the time.
And, I am sure they have great word of mouth.
After all, why bad mouth the very speaker you own ?
Kinda make em hard to sell, know what I mean ?
I am more objective,
I have nothing for, or against Tyler.
My opinion on them is based on people who have actually heard them.
Many people who are veterans to the high end world.
I am sorry it isnt "politically correct".
> After all, why bad mouth the very speaker you own ? <
Yeah, that would be almost as bad as bad mouthing one you never heard.
Oz
Boy, Mister Roman Audio Centurion ex PBN owner, dont ever email me again asking for my advice on speakers, ok ?
I valued your opinion on speakers, and if anyone ever asked me about the speakers you have owned, I would say I have never heard them, but my friend Ozzie liked the PBN's.
Would you be critical of that ?
So now, here I am, saying that my circle of friends dont like the Tylers, and you suddenly become critical because I report what my friends have told me about them.'
Face it man, we all dont have the opportunity to personally hear Everything, right ?
When you were considering speakers to out perform the PBN's, you sought out opinions, including mine.
If those opinions were worthless, then why did you ask.
What, are you going to say "I would still have to hear them for myself "
Thats bullshit, for if it were true, then why did you just go do it, instead of wasting my freaking time getting my reccommendations ?
I dont need friends like you Ozzie, that attempt to make me look small, so you can look good.
I still have the emails from you, asking my advice on speakers, how you going to worm out of this ?
Hey, just because we exchanged emails a few years ago about speakers doesn't mean we are best buddies. I'm not trying to "worm out" of anything. And it doesn't excuse your behavior on AA most of the time. There is nothing wrong with saying "my friend heard "X" and didn't care for it. But you go waaaay beyond that by trashing another manufacturer's design, and not just one either, based ONLY on speculation and your "friends" opinons. I would say that's taking it too far. I have never heard any of Tyler's designs. And I am even inclined to agree with you somewhat about stuffing brand name drivers in a nice box. It does not guarantee great sound, it takes much more than that. But I HAVE NOT heard them, so it is only that, speculation.Don't start taking personal shots at me.
Oz
Hey, funk you Ozzie, you take a personal shot at me, you are going to get one back dude.
I am not a white collar wimp bro, I own the largest roof cleaning company in Tampa.
Blue collar all the way, to the bank.
In my opinion, you took a cheap shot at me, so you got one back.
Most of the time, my opinion is based on my own hearing of a speaker.
Probably 85% of the time.
However, I do trust some of my friends ears, especially if its multiple friends who dont even know each other.
How many times have you heard someone say a Krell can be a bright amp, just repeating its reputation ?
How many threads have you seen saying Quad 57's have a great midrange, based on its reputation, w/o someone actually hearing them ?
I am NOT an ass kisser dude, and I call it like I see it.
If my considerable amount of Industry insiders dont like something, my experience has taught me that I wont either.
My friends have saved me a lot of valuable wasted time from needlessly auditioning shit.
I was attempting to share some of my experiences with you, and then you take a shot at me.
Let this be a lesson to you, funk with me, you are going to get it right back.
I do not wish a "war" with you, because I like you Ozzie.
Like me, you are a hard core audiophile, and I value your opinions on stuff.
So, let this be the end of it.
I perceived you took a personal shot at me, and I took one back.
No big deal, people disagree all the time.
I get real mad, for a short period of time,and thats it.
Having a resentment is like pissing in your pants, the person who feels it most is you!
I have no lingering resentment, we disagreed, you told me off, and I recriprocated.
The end of it, as far as I am concerned, ok ?
tisk, tisk.
f
*
Cant argue wiuth that! WHo cares what your friends told you, if you havent heard something yourself you have no opinion its a very easy concept that many people here dont get. If you havent tried it dont knock it!!!
Even though they are known to carry AIDS, STD's and every form of Hepatitis known to man!
Hey, dont knock it until you try it, right LOL
You REALLY need to turn off your computer and get a life Pal. It's obvious from the number of posts that you spend WAY too much time here looking to try to impress people with your comments. It's not working in case you haven't noticed.
Jazzbeat,My two cents worth: Call Tyler and discuss the speakers. I own the Tyler Taylo monitors, and while I won't say they're the best speakers out there, they definitely are viable contenders in the MSRP price range. As far as buying used speakers, I would recommend you buy a pair of used Taylos from Ty because he will warranty them for two years. I bought mine used, along with the stands, and they are flawless - he doesn't resell his trade-ins unless they're in mint condition. He also offers a trade-up program (within one year of original purchase), that includes USED speakers. So, you could try the Freedoms and later on trade up to the Linnbrooks or Taylos. I've dealt directly with Merlin's Bobby Palkovick - who also makes a fantastic speaker (I've owned both his TSM-Ms and VSM-Ms), and again would recommend buying a pair of those on the used market. Bobby gladly takes back any of his speakers that might need repairs, and is VERY accommodating. In fact, he built a completely new cabinet for me (TSM-M in black ice blue finish) and did not charge me for it (my daughter knocked it off its stand). You can get either the TSM-M or the Taylo monitors for under 1500.00 used, and I don't think anything else compares for that price. Another note on Tyler Acoustics - I purchased my Coda Ultra integrated amp from Ty. Coda is doing shows with Ty because they really like his designs - I mention this for those in this thread who really must have their purchases endorsed by long-standing, reputable companies.
Hi JazzBeat !
Just kinda weird to see you away from Planar Asylum ?
No offense to Tyler acoustics, but I have always thought of it as an AudioGon speaker, and have never seriously considered it.
I know that whatever speaker I buy will not be my last, so I try and stick with brands that have high Resale value.
Have you looked into the Von Schweikert's ?
Ka7niq, while I confess I too am a big VS fan as a general rule and frequently recommend many VS models to others, I would not say they hold their value any better than Tyler speakers do... Also, I would argue that at their various price point levels, the Tyler speakers are superior (objectively in the case of driver cost, and subjectively sound-wise to my ears, at least).This is not meant to insult VS owners at all, as I really feel compared to other store brands, they offer sound that is about "as good as it gets" at their respective price points (the DB99 mk II is a good example of this). It just is more to Tyler's credit that this "AudioGon" Internet only brand is just that *good*. :-)
Happy listening,
---Dave
you own Tyler's.
Here is why I consider them inferior to Von Schweikert's.
Albert has been around since ESS speaker days, having studied under Doctor Heil.
He also attended Cal Tech, and studied under Dr. Richard Heyser.
He and John Bau of Spica were classmates.
He has many reviews under his belt dating back to 1984 in TAS, etc.
When eggleston needed to update the Andra, who did they turn to, but the master, Albert Von Schweikert.
His VR 11 is going to be reviewed by Harry Pearson soon in TAS, and may possibly replace the big Alons as the worlds best speaker.
Nothing against Ty Tyler, but he is but an amateur compared to Albert.
He hasnt the experience, nor the formal training Albert does, nor does he have the track record either.
As I said, to me Tylers are an Internet speaker made by a cabinet maker in Kentucky who is able to impress less well informed Audiophiles then me.
Sorry, but it takes more then good ingredients to make a good meal.
It takes a master cook.
In my opinion, Tyler is not in Alberts league.
Evidently, Eggleston felt the same way ?
BTW,,the Andra's are a class A speaker, according to the reviews.
This is my opinion, and since you bought the Tylers, obviously not yours.
I am glad you are enjoying the Tylers
Chrisdrseid's Super Value HT/Music Combo System
Last Update: February 10, 2005 at 04:25:46 IP Address: 24.254.94.190
Amplifier: Aragon 3002 300 Watt X 2 Power Amp
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): Cary Audio Cinema 6
Speakers: Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System 2 piece (Front L/R), Tyler Linbrook Center, 3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors (rear 3 channels), ACI Titan II subwoofer (only used with HT as the LFE channel)
Sources:
CD Player/DAC: Opera Audio Consonance CD-120 (for redbook), Denon DVD-1600 for DVD-A
Turntable/Phono Stage: n/a
Other Accessories/Room/Misc.:
Speaker Cables/Interconnects: Monster Silver Series Interconnects, DH Labs Silver Sonic Speaker Cables
Other (Power Conditioner, Racks etc.): Monster Surge Protectors
Room Size (LxWxH): 14 x 16 x 9
Room Comments/Treatments: Carpeting
Music Preferences and Comments:
Music Used (Genre/Selections): Classical and Female Vocals
System Goals/Comments: To find a nice compromise system for 2 channel and multi-channel audio, that also does HT
System Strengths: Excellent imaging, and soundstage. Tyler speakers reproduce music rivaling the very best.
System Weaknesses: The room size could be bigger to get the most of what the Tylers are capable of. Room treatments would also help in future.
Video/HT System: Integrated
TV/Projector: Sony 50 inch Rear-projection LCD HDTV
Processor/Receiver/Amplifiers: see above
Speakers (Center, Surrounds, Sub): see above
Sources (DVD/VCR): Denon DVD-1600, Pioneer Laser Disc Player
Other HT Gear: Panasonic DVD-RAM/DVD-R unit, Pioneer Laser Disc Player, HDTV/HD-PVR Cable Box, MSN TV2
Comments on HT System: Very nice on movies... Almost as good as with music.
Edit My System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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drseid's Super Value HT/Music Combo System
Last Update: February 10, 2005 at 04:25:46 IP Address: 24.254.94.190
Amplifier: Aragon 3002 300 Watt X 2 Power Amp
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): Cary Audio Cinema 6
Speakers: Tyler Acoustics Linbrook System 2 piece (Front L/R), Tyler Linbrook Center, 3 Tyler Taylo Reference Monitors (rear 3 channels), ACI Titan II subwoofer (only used with HT as the LFE channel)
Sources:
CD Player/DAC: Opera Audio Consonance CD-120 (for redbook), Denon DVD-1600 for DVD-A
Turntable/Phono Stage: n/a
Other Accessories/Room/Misc.:
Speaker Cables/Interconnects: Monster Silver Series Interconnects, DH Labs Silver Sonic Speaker Cables
Other (Power Conditioner, Racks etc.): Monster Surge Protectors
Room Size (LxWxH): 14 x 16 x 9
Room Comments/Treatments: Carpeting
Music Preferences and Comments:
Music Used (Genre/Selections): Classical and Female Vocals
System Goals/Comments: To find a nice compromise system for 2 channel and multi-channel audio, that also does HT
System Strengths: Excellent imaging, and soundstage. Tyler speakers reproduce music rivaling the very best.
System Weaknesses: The room size could be bigger to get the most of what the Tylers are capable of. Room treatments would also help in future.
Video/HT System: Integrated
TV/Projector: Sony 50 inch Rear-projection LCD HDTV
Processor/Receiver/Amplifiers: see above
Speakers (Center, Surrounds, Sub): see above
Sources (DVD/VCR): Denon DVD-1600, Pioneer Laser Disc Player
Other HT Gear: Panasonic DVD-RAM/DVD-R unit, Pioneer Laser Disc Player, HDTV/HD-PVR Cable Box, MSN TV2
Comments on HT System: Very nice on movies... Almost as good as with music.
Edit My System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2005, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]
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A while back, I read this same sales pitch for Von Schweikerts over Meadowlarks. In fact, you could subsitute the Meadowlark guy for Ty and it would read verbatim. How sad. How much is VR paying this guy?
Oh shit, dont leave Infinity out either ?
Been a shilling for them too, reccommending the Primus 360 and 150 on a regular basis!OOH SHIT PINKO, you are SOO Busted my Tyler Loving friend.
Golly gee, look what you got in your home.
My my, who would have guessed it, Tyler acoustics, LOL.Here is your system
Plinko's Good times! System
Last Update: July 21, 2005 at 18:24:46 IP Address: 24.3.186.73
Amplifier: Primaluna Prologue Two
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): none
Speakers: Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference MonitorsNo wonder you're so pissed!
LOL ... at you !
Don't misprepresent me. I'm quite happy. Why did you post exactly the same stuff about Ty just as you did with the Meadolark guy months ago?Btw, I have two other speakers. You will never find out what they are because, well, you aren't worth it.
you arent worth any more of my time Pinko, have a nice day
What does my system have anything to do with this? I never made a claim to the contrary about my owning Tylers... It is hardly a secret. Oh, and what speakers do *you* own?... ;-)Your arguments in favor of VS are really laughable Chris... sorry. While I have *heard* the entire line of Von Schweikert speakers (including the truly unbelievable VR-11s), you have *not* heard the Tylers... and you claim that anyone who would choose them over VS at similar price points has *less* listening experience than you or is "less well-informed." .... Let's get real here. :-)
I am certainly not going to dispute the long list of accolades Albert has earned over the years, as they are all well-deserved, and I am a huge fan. Nor will I dispute the superiority of the VR-11s (which happen to be my favorite speakers regardless of price, BTW). That said, all the accolades in the world mean nothing when making a comparison of one product to another if it is not backed by actual listening. I am comparing actual listening experiences, you are talking awards and years in the business.
Just for the record, obviously it would be silly to compare Tyler's top of the line Woodmeres at 10-12K/pr. to the 120K/pr. VR-11s... I don't think I, or anyone else (including Ty) has ever made any claim to that end. I said that Tyler speakers are superior objectively with respect to driver cost, and *subjectively* in sound *at similar price points* to the VS speakers (an example would be the Woodmeres versus the DB-99s or VR4-SRs).
My advice to you is to go out and listen to some Tylers at the next THE Show (or elsewhere)before you accuse others of being "less informed" than you. I think you may just find out that you may have to eat some humble pie... :-)
Happy listening my "learned" friend,
---Dave
What is the big deal about VS's speakers?? I really dont understand, there speakers that are affordable to normal people like th 4jr are not bad but not spectacular either, I never understood the big stink about these speakers, am I the only one here that thinks VS are not all that great sounding?? Mind you that besides the vr-9's that i heard at a show, I have only heard there more affordable models like the VR-2, VR4jr, and Vr-1, the only ones I thought were really good were the VR-1's the others never impressed me, I guess the 4jr is alot of speaker for the price and probably good iff you have alarger room to fill. But they have always sounded bloated and boomy in the bass?? Anyone else feel this way about VS? BTW I am not a Tyler or Meadowlark owner so i am not biased afor or againstany of these speakers just voiceing my opinion.
Happy Listening
I like the more expensive Von Schweikerts too.
The VR4Jr's are a speaker capable of nice sound, for the money.
Because they really do get way down there, they can easily excite room nodes, and require careful placement.
They also need a LONG time to break in.'Albert designs them with fully broken in drivers, and if the drivers are new, they wont sound good.
I have owned vr 1' vr 2's and vr4jr's.
However, I live in a HUGE room, and the VR4 JR's were "lost" in it.
Well, where do I start ?
The VR 4Sr is 4 grand LESS, just as efficient, almost as heavy, and uses a scan speak ring radiator tweeter.
The same tweeter as the Krell LAT 1 for 28,000 !
The VR4 SR uses an Aerogel midrange, and two long throw Aluminum drivers.
But, and here's the pisser, it is designed by Albert Von Schweikert.
A designer who has been around 25 plus years vs some guy from Kentucky who builds furniture!
Check out the VR4 Sr, and check out the Woodmere, then remember the Von Schweikert is 4 grand less !
From the V.S. Website:
"Phase: Consistent phase between drive units and slow rotation is desired; no out-of-phase drivers;
Time: The drive units must be time coherent in the ear's sensitive 3ms range;
Utilizing a 4th order crossover, they failed miserably in the time coherency camp. The drivers are technically "in phase" with themselves but they are one full cycle apart. No way in hell are they time coherent. I respect Albert and honestly think he does a 4th order crossover about as well as it can be done, but Albert, please stop promoting your product as one with phase and time coherence. 360 degree's of phase shift is not, I repeat NOT time/phase coherant.
God, here you go again ?
When Is the Green Mountain Audio advertisement gonna come out ?
You sound like a little sissy brat screaming " but my bicycle is the only red one".
So what, blue, yellow, and red bicycles take you where you want to go too.
The BBC, NRC, Bell Labs, and several others have known for years that gradual crossover phase change is not heard.
But Increased IM distortion, and all the nasty gremlins associated with first order crossovers are.
Hundreds of listening tests over the years, by many researchers with no hidden agenda's, have proven this.
Ya know what? I'm getting really fucking tired of your non stop crap. Why is it YOU can profess purple prowse and effuse relentlessly praise on your goddamn Von Schweikart shit and Infinity Primus CRAP but it's somehow NOT ok for ME to steer people into a GOOD speaker? Fuck off asshole.......i'm so goddamn tired of you and your fucking tireless NIT PICKING SHIT! Leave me the fuck alone...............
E-mail GMA about this post fuck head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its going straight to Janet, and hopefully to Roy too!
They are tired of you shit, and you are giving them a bad name.
Please, stop giving GMA a bad name.
They are nice people, and deserve a better "spokesperson" then you.
The Email's A flying .... Aloa Ha, Howlie
You know what bothers me about you? You give me a hard time for suggesting people listen to GMA or other 1st order crossover speakers, claiming i'm some sort of "shrill" whatever that is, yet it is perfectly ok (in your mind) for you to push V.S. and Infinity Primus speakers post after post after post after post. You go on and on about what a great designer Albert is, who he worked under, who he studied with, how many years he's been at it, etc. I assume then that you are a shrill for V.S. and Infinity and on the payroll of both companies. That being the case, you should have a disclaimer at the end of each of your posts. Have I e-mailed Albert and told him I think your doing his company a disservice, with all of your propoganda? No. I have more class than that. Stop telling stories.....they make you look less credible. FYI: "Haole" is the Hawaiian word for "outsider" Not sure what the hell you thought it meant. I am not a "Haole" I am a "Kama'aina"
Just a quick correction - The tweeter used in the 4 SR is NOT a Scanspeak, it is a Vifa. Fortunately, the VR website has taken down the very misleading Vifa/Scanspeak statement and replaced it with a "concentric ring radiator from Denmark".The speaker from Rick Craig, on the other hand, appears to be a MONSTER value. The drivers in that speaker are a good 2x the cost, with the speaker selling for about 1/2! I have not seen nor heard the Selah speaker myself (in person), but it does not appear that they are scrimping anywhere!
Agreed on everything said here...I actually knew about the VR4-SR tweeter statement inaccuracy too (and the $400 a driver negative variance in cost each), but did not want to add any unnecessary fuel to the fire, as I think I have already made my point on Chris' general inaccuracies earlier.
The Selah speakers are some I have followed for quite some time, and I agree they are a fabulous value for the money (the same can be said of the Salk speakers mentioned by Ka7niq). I would not call either of them "Tyler Killers" as he decribed them, but they definitely are in the same league/class, and competitive in all areas, IMO. As Maxx had previously mentioned though, there really is not much difference in the size of those companies to the size of Tyler. All 3 of those companies are very small niche players compared to VS, that offer great bang (and sound) for the buck if someone takes the time to find and hear them. It does seem to go completely against Ka7niq's argument about vast resources, "best speaker made" awards, company size and history, etc.
---Dave
4 Grand less than $10,200? I don't think so... All of my statements still hold true. you do not have one shread of evidence to back up your assertions except the words of your friends who attend DIY shows (and I have no idea how they, nor DIY shows come into play here, BTW).But I am through responding to your inane and inaccurate posts. I think I will go back to listening to the music on my Tylers... You can continue to fool yourself by listening to your friends. I'll let my ears decide, thanks.
Good day my "learned" friend,---Dave
You are a slick muther, putting words in my mouth, AGAIN.
You wrote'
"4 Grand less than $10,200? I don't think so...THE VON SCHWEIKERT IS 8 GRAND RETAIL
All of my statements still hold true. you do not have one shread of evidence to back up your assertions except the words of your friends who attend DIY shows (and I have no idea how they, nor DIY shows come into play here, BTW).
MY FRIENDS, AND I ATTEND MORE THEN DIY SHOWS
"THE VON SCHWEIKERT IS 8 GRAND RETAIL"You just made my case... Last time I looked, $10,200 minus $4000 does not equal $8,000. Maybe by your calculations it does, although most math scholars (and first grade students) would disagree.
"MY FRIENDS, AND I ATTEND MORE THEN DIY SHOWS"
I am glad to hear it Chris... The more important question though is whether you and your friends are attending remedial math classes... ;-)
Sorry Chris, I couldn't resist. :-) Just in case there was a misunderstanding, the price of the *Woodmeres* is $10,200 a pair (not the VR4SRs).
---Dave
Wouldnt want your Arabic butt cutting on me, LOL
You, My Desert Dwelling friend, are the one unable to add, or to even Read!
How did you ever get through Med school ?
One more time, The Woodmere's are 12 Grand!
12 grand, minus 8 grand is 4 grand.
Let me make it a tad easier on you, since I dont speak Arabic, Ok ?
If you have 12,000 Camel's and 4 thousand run off, that leaves 8 thousand Camel's, right ?
Please look at the Tyler Link Below and read it, then pray to Allah that I might forgive you.
Then, please, wear sunglasses when you look East into the sun.'
Those Cataracts are a bitch, LOL
Now you are getting nasty ol' boy.First off, I am not an Arab Chris (I am *Jewish* as it happens... Have any nasty antisemitic Jew jokes to bring out since you are so smart?)... This is all completely irrelevant though.
Second, my "learned" friend, the Woodmeres *do* sell for $10,200/pr. (see the Tyler sale page for the actual selling price my friend). You are looking in the wrong place. If you tried to buy them you would know the statement to be true (but in your case Ty would proably raise the price to $12K since you are so willing to pay it).
Chris, now it is time for you to go to your religion and race sensitivity training class followed by that remedial math... You run along now...
---Dave
I used to do stand up, X rated comedy!
In my routine, I poked fun at ALL races!
I am an equal opportunity Mother F'er, LOL!
Actually, my Jewish jokes far outweigh my Arabic ones ?
Why, because I live in "Little Jerusalem" {Florida}
No shortage of Jewish people down here.
Some of my good friends are Sheldon Lenter, Rick Trobermann, Jerry Schneidermann, Ellen Rosenthal, shall i go on ?
Harvey Rosenburg of NYAL and I were friends, and I have partied and ate cheese with Dick Shaninian who I believe is an Armenian jew at CES.
I am of Italian ancestry, and make fun of Guinea's too.
If we all cant laugh at ourselves from time to time, what good is the world ?Anyway, wanted to point out your math error in a funny way.
I am not a racist.
Oh, btw, Ellen Rosenthal is my girlfried {one of them}
I will post her picture here for you, along with mine!
My arm is around Ellen Rosenthal, she is to my right
Eat your heart out.
Fair enough Chris, let's call a truce then. What do you say? We should all just enjoy listening to the music they way we feel is best for us at the end of the day, right?Regards,
---Dave
Lets just go on.
Honestly, I coukld care less if you agree with my audio opinions, but I am FAR from anti semetic.
Not a racist either.
But, if truth be known, I am not especially fond of many Arabic people I have met!
I am from Dteroit originally, the largest Arabic population outside the Middle East/
Many, not all, of these people, hate Jews and Americans!
Some of them are out to destroy America and Jerasulem!
My good friend, Rick Trobermann actaully left a thriving law practice to move to Israel.
He said he felt his people neeeded him.
He was a Mossiac Jew, and I might add one bad ass mother f'er too !
He and I met in Seattle taking Jiu Jitsu together!
He is one Jew you never want to mess with, LOL
He was all into the Jewish Defense League if you know what I mean!
I thought he was Italian when we first met, he looked like a big Roman soldier.
I miss Rick, and hope he is happy in Isreal.
Its all over between you and I, and I must admit, you were much more "civilized" in our discourse then I.
Shalom
Chris
check ka7niq's past post concerning Tylers. Nothing out of character here. In a previous post when someone inquired about B&W vs. Tyler he said it was like comparing a Porsche to some contraption built in someone's garage. Even though he admitted he had never heard them! Went into the same rant that B&W had more resources and experience so they must be way better.I pointed out the 50 plus owner reviews (spanning several years) of Tylers at AudioReviews.com. Pointing out that several of the Tyler owners had "upgraded" from more expensive B&W models.
His response was they must be friends of Ty or paid reviews. Shortly after that he even started a thread something along the lines of do you believe the reviews at Audio Review?
Interesting his point about Alberts achievments and resouces MUST somehow equal a superior speaker. Some of his favorite recommended speakers are from manufacturers like Ty that are from speaker companises that are only a blip on the radar in comparison to the resources of companies like VS and B&W. Illogical?
BW Maxx
You wrote "Interesting his point about Alberts achievments and resouces MUST somehow equal a superior speaker. Some of his favorite recommended speakers are from manufacturers like Ty that are from speaker companises that are only a blip on the radar in comparison to the resources of companies like VS and B&W. Illogical?"I am sorry Maxx, but in my circles Tylers dont get much respect.
Your circles may vary.
I trust my many friends opinions of them.
Perhaps you dont trust your friends ?If you have 25 friends go see a terrible movie, and tell you about it, are you going to go anyway and waste money ?
My friends are all very wired into the Audio World.
Like me, they go to shows, and some of them are well known manufacturers, reps, etc.
We talk about what we liked, or didnt like.
I NEVER asked about the Tylers, never was the least bit curious about them.
But several friends did remark to me about them, and it wasnt real positive either.
That was two years ago, and the remarks havent gotten any better.
The manufacturers I reccommended have good reputations in my circles for building great sounding speakers.
When, and If Tyler acquires the kind of reputation the reccommended small companies have earned amongst my friends, and I, I will be the first to reccommend his stuff.
Also, I dont think Tyler offers particular value either, they are expensive for what you get.
Your assault on the Tylers of 04-03-2004 is all there in black and white. Do you need a hyperlink for everyone to see? Ephemere in the April 2004 thread even showed the absurdity of your logic and hyperlinked to show that under your falicious assumptions Bose would produce the best speakers.Again you prove my point by recommending Selah and Salk speakers. Small shops with limited resources compared to B&W and VS. A few other outstanding speaker companies with limited resources (basically one man operations), that come to mind, are VMPS, Reimer and Merlin.
Nuff' said Maxx
Oh that's right Maxx, I forgot about that old thread... Now the whole thing is coming back to me. Very unfortunate indeed. Sigh...
---Dave
Click on the below link, and see what you can get for 4 grand, and lets see what Tyler has to offer at this price range.'
And, Bear in mind, this is completely assembled too, and even LESS if you build the kit!
No Tyler comes close to these in value, NONE !
Wanna see ?
Go to http://www.tyleracoustics.com/taylo.html and see what Lashbrook gives you for 4 grand, LOL
No connection - Selah is taken from the Psalms.
Hey ka7niq,Maybe, just maybe your next speaker would be your last, or would last a lot longer, if you took the path less traveled. I did, and went with one of Rick Craig's designs. It will be a LONG time, if at all, that I end up with another speaker. Companies like Selah Audio and Tyler Acoustics, offer a lot more bang for the buck. In the case with the Excelarray's that I bought, I feel I've reached the pinnacle of loudspeaker design at this time.
Sorry Bro,
I dont ever mention Tyler in the same breath with Rick Craig of Selah.
Rick, i respect, because he is well known in the DIY community.
Tyler is unknown to me, except for selling on Audiogon.
My friends, whose ears I trust, are not especially fond of them.
I dont see Tyler being chosen to build Jim Griffins kits, nor do I see Tylers name mentioned in DIY circles, Midwest Audio Fairs, Orlando DIY, etc.
My opinion of Tyler is a cabinet maker turned speaker builder who was clever enough to use good drivers.
But, just stuffing good drivers into a box dont guarantee good sound!
Chris,In reply to gme109 this date, you stated "...But just stuffing good drivers into a box dont (don't) guarantee good sound."
In another reply to the same thread, you stated "...Because of the excellence of the drivers used in the Tylers, it is relatively easy to get a good sound."
Which is it?
Also, what does the state of Kentucky have to do with the inability to manufacturer quality loudspeakers?
And if I may, you compare Albert's qualifications to Ty's. I don't know Ty's background, or Rick Craig or Jim Salk or the folks at GR Research, nor do I know who else works or consults at such companies. Do you?
I believe Peter Q. of Audio Note UK was a former retailer. Perhaps he has a related educational background. Perhaps he employs talented designers and engineers.
rps
Chris,
In reply to gme109 this date, you stated "...But just stuffing good drivers into a box dont (don't) guarantee good sound."I MEANT GREAT SOUND
In another reply to the same thread, you stated "...Because of the excellence of the drivers used in the Tylers, it is relatively easy to get a good sound."
Which is it? BOTH, I MEANT GREAT SOUND IN EXAMPLE ONE
Also, what does the state of Kentucky have to do with the inability to manufacturer quality loudspeakers?
NONE, THIEL IS IN KENTUCKY
And if I may, you compare Albert's qualifications to Ty's.
ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARASION
I don't know Ty's background, or Rick Craig or Jim Salk or the folks at GR Research, nor do I know who else works or consults at such companies. Do you?YEAH, HE HAS A 'GENIUS' WORKING FOR HIM, LOL
I believe Peter Q. of Audio Note UK was a former retailer. Perhaps he has a related educational background. Perhaps he employs talented designers and engineers.
PERHAPS, WHATS YER POINT ?
rps
If you haven't heard something and you've drawn a conclusion, then you are pre-judging. I've heard the Tyler Woodmere and thought they offered above average value. Would I trade my Excelarray's for them, no.
In 30 plus years of Audio, I have developed quite an extensive network of friends whose hearing I trust.
I havent heard real bad things about Tylers, nor have i heard real good things either.
Honestly, in my world, and circle of Audiophiles, they dont exist.
When we talk speakers, we talk Line arrays, Salk, Selah, GR Research, etc.
And, for commercial speakers we talk Vandersteen, Von Schweikert, Magnepan, etc.
Tylers are never mentioned in my circles.
When I see em on Audiogon, I never click on them.
Just Aint Interested.
Before I would pay that much for a seas and scan speak, I would build it myself.
The Tylers aint cheap!
Because of the excellence of the drivers used in the Tylers, it is relatively easy to get a good sound.
There are several companies offering kits for a lot less money.
And, the Tylers have to be compared to commercial products, since they are far from cheap!
I dont think they are really that good a deal
When comparing them against the Excelarray's, they're obviously over priced, but so is just about any other speaker out there.
You and ka' make quite the team. rotflmao.
f
I think a lot of folks have the opinion that Tylers are an exceptional (cheap) value because of the company's low profile.They may be worth it, but you're right -- relooking the costs, they ain't goin' for pocket change. At least not any pockets I can reach.
FR
But I've auditioned quite a few and never bought any. But I did buy some of Tylers Linbrook models. Have you ever listened to any Tylers?
Briefly, at a show.
I didnt hear anthings special, but it was at a show.....
Still, they aint cheap, even "factory direct".
I notice you dont have them now, at least your system dont reflect it, or am I missing something ?
I appreciate all the responses and one point I wanted to make was one
dealing with the lower priced VRs. While I am sure they have a good
design if I would go for say VR it would be a VR4. Not used . This
is way beyond my budget. As for the VR2 I am sure it is a good speaker however it's drivers are made in China as well as the rest
of the components. Actually I have no problem there ( where do the
majority of computer components come from anyway) but really looking
for a system with higher end components. This was one of the factors
for looking at the Tyler systems as I know the Seas drivers and
associated are a major step up from most components used in the
sub 2K speakers. Another system I have explored is the NAIM Arriva,
as well as the Cabasse Caperella, as well as the Soliloquy 5.3.
All of these mentioned have custom drivers that are IMO far more
developed than most in design for a a mid fi speaker. I am not
knocking VR speakers but am looking to get a virgin system rather than someones hand me down. Sorry but I have had speakers that
have been put through the mill and later sold as "like new".
If I had the $$ sure VR 4 III or better but looking under 2K new.
Curious as to anyones experience with say KRIX, low end Duntechs
( bookself) or the above mentioned. As stated I am under the
2K limit but would be interested to see what Europe or England
might offer.
Again thanks for all the responses.
Cheers.
You should be able to get a used VR 4 for under 2 grand.
The old VR 4's used very good drivers, and are highly musical.
John Ulrick of Spectron has old VR4's.
John Ulrick founded Infinity with Arnie Nudell and Cary Christie, and did the crossover on the IRS.
He makes the Spectron digital amp.
"As for the VR2 I am sure it is a good speaker however it's drivers are made in China as well as the rest of the components. Actually I have no problem there (where do the majority of computer components come from anyway) but really looking for a system with higher end components."Really, if you don't have a problem [there] then why did you mention it. You're only fooling yourself! VR-2's are a bargain and terrific sounding speakers no matter where they or their drivers are made. If you like the sound of a speaker why should it matter where it comes from or how much it doesn't cost. I also have a pair of the original VR-4's and I still love them, they are great performing speakers especially at the used prices today. No offense but it sounds like you are looking more for show but then it's your money. Good luck.
Not meaning to be contrary to your response however.. the only reason
I brought up the concept as to manufacture is one dealing what I look
for in a system. I have been in EE for over 30 years and getting tired of the BS that surrounds many in this trade. IE hype and the like. I am sure the VR2 is a very good speaker as well as the VR1.
To further I have considered them as well. The reasoning for myself
is I am specifically looking for a system that is a the end result of
many years of refinement of driver designs. One reason for the direction of driver use is one of my choice.. I agree the cook is as important as the materials used and a great combination of both.
This is why I had asked as to the possible opinion of the Naim
Ariva earlier. This system uses a Vifa ring tweeter well known and used in many well known systems. Again Naim is not a company to take
lightly either. Or the Cabasse Caprella from a company that while not the favorite over here has been manufacturing and refining speaker designs over the past 50 years. The VR4 is like the previously mentioned in that many years have been invovled in the driver designs and later refinements and revisions. Another I have
looked at is the Audio Physics line as well. All of these like the
VR have years in revisions in driver and cabinet design. When I
orignally asked as the sound of the Tyler systems I was asking
for an opinion of users of which I have received a few. They have been rated well with many reviewers as a new upcoming speaker firm.
I am sure of one thing, Albert of VR would probably give them a listen and give them a fair judge of his opinions no matter who
made statements to the contrary...
Thanks for all the responses..
First off, sorry for my part of the long string of unrelated responses...Getting back on topic...
I have not heard any of the Tyler Freedom line, so I can't comment there (I have heard all the Tylers except those unfortunately).
One floorstander I really think would be a great buy in the under 2K price range is the Opera Audio Consonance Eric-3 at 2K/pr. The Eric-3s impressed me quite a bit when I heard them earlier this year... *Very* strong performance for the money, IMO.
This is probably a stretch, but if you find any closeouts on the Sonus Faber Grand Piano Homes around the 2K area (they are being replaced by the Domus series), I am also a big fan of those, and recommend an audition.
Good luck with your search,
---Dave
The Tyler Linbrook Signature Systems are presently in residence in my listening room (since nov 04). My Paragons and my Quad 63's are in the closet. I'm not sure which I like best, they are all very different but excellent speakers. Sort of like being a mule between haystacks. Note that these cost less than either of the other systems without taking into account inflation. What immediately impresses me about them is the very high degree of resolution that they provide without producing excess high frequency energy. They are very revealing of sources. I'm presently playing with amps/tubes to find the best all around combo. They are efficient enuf that I can work with lower power amps which is what I'm presently experimenting with. When I make a final choice I'll post my changes.
I vacillate back and forth between my 3 pairs too.
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