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In Reply to: VMPS 626R... posted by jonbee on February 28, 2004 at 20:10:41:
I auditioned these two speakers on adjacent days. Unfortunately, I did not have the luxury of auditioning both in the same room and with the same amps, but the rooms were not terribly different. I sat the same distance away and used a digital dB meter at the same distance and listened to the exact same source material.I would buy either one, as both seemed neutral, detailed and refined. I would however give the edge to the Europa in terms of even greater sense of true-to-original sound (from an acoustic source) and also detail. Another observation, the Europa went to a clean peak @ 106 dB (A weighted, measured @ 2 m.) with no apparent distortion whereas the 626R distorted with a 98 db peak (@ 2 m., same source material). Obviously, you may not need those sound levels. Personally, I do not play back that loud at home although I hear 106 dB on rare occasions sitting in an orchestra (yep, I've used a db meter in rehearsals). In the audition, I used a recording of acoustic music that I am personally familiar with in live settings as I am a professional performer.
Another possible factor is the 626R may be easier to have the opportunity to audition. Bottom line is that I would not hesitate to buy either one. Both are very fine. This is just my impression and my opinion.
Follow Ups:
Montobo,I'm glad you had the opportunity to audition the VMPS monitors, and I also am surprised by your results. Though I am unfamiliar with your recording, the 626R cleanly peaks in excess of 105dB with the standard spiral ribbon tweeter, and the Signature edition will peak narly 110dB with virtually no compression.
However, VMPS speaker systems are very demanding, and in order to achieve the above levels you will need serious amplification. Wayne at Bolder knows his stuff, so I doubt there was anything like DC offset present to lead to the premature clipping.
The only other thought that comes to mind is that of deep bass in the recording played when measuring SPL - first octave tones of sub-bass could theoretically lower the threshold as well.
Kind Regards,
Rupesh
Dear Rupesh,Thank you for your gracious reply. I believe the 626R renders a natural and truly outstanding sound. In a casual and subjective way, I rank its quality level among near-field studio monitors that I have heard in recording sessions. As you can tell, I do not qualify as a true audiophile and have not done nearly the testing as I presume for many AA members.
I cannot begin to imagine the complexity of the source found in the Metropolitan Opera's recording, Act III of Aida, but Wayne agreed that he had heard distortion which seemed in two places during the loud soprano passage. The volume was extremely loud. Since we did not try to reproduce it and did not investigate further, nothing could be less scientific. I would like to add that Wayne was a fine host.
I really encourage others to test with their own recordings in their own way for their own results. If there ever should be doubt as to loud and clean, the Signature model should lay that to rest. Congratulations to VMPS on its outstanding power handling.
Really glad for your input. Thanks.
Monte
Monte,Thanks for the kind reply. I just want to clarify I don't doubt your observations, but your results (though informal they may be) conflict with my measured results. I only wanted to throw out the possibility of a problem in the chain, not to confirm or deny your impressions.
Of course, the sound quality is strictly your opinion, given the subjective nature of personal preference. We can all rant and rave as we please, but only you will know what sound captures your mind and body. Given your professional background, I would say you are as well qualified to judge musical reproduction as the next Inmate.
Kind Regards,
Rupesh
except for the inappropriate terms "rant and rave" and the context of "subjective...personal preference."Prior to these experiences, I had heard neither speaker and had no opinion or preference. I was in the market, the speakers were convenient to me and I found them comparable in most ways. Maybe my results were a bit different than what you expected or hoped.
Subjective and personal preference: I find MANY fine qualities with the the 626R (so listed). It would be a fine speaker to buy.
Objective: The only sound that was not music came during my loudness test--distortion--was frankly loud, conspicuous noise at 2 different times. Anyone to listen would have known--Wayne, AA, general public. Actually, it was Wayne who first mentioned it. He was a great host, very civil and non-defensive.
This was a listener's report but NOT a rant. Please re-read all my positive comments, which ARE sincere. Pluses & minuses. I believe that in this forum, audio sellers should maintain a respectful distance (re: your second paragraph).
Recall that I subjected a different brand of speakers to the same test. The other OBJECTIVE result was that the GMA Europa handled the same source without discernable noises at a higher db.
Maybe we can give it a rest. Thanks.
Hi Montobo,
Can you please describe the bass quality & quantity of the 626r and Europas?...Were the highs extended enough for you on the Europas/626 or did you sense some roll-off?......
Greetings,I think we misunderstood one another. By "rant and rave" I was NOT referring to yourself or your impressions...more of a loose pun (albeit poor) on the fact this is an Asylum and we're referred to as Inmates...as such it is our m.o. to rant and rave. I only meant that no matter how many good words we read on a component, we will not know if it is to our liking until we've listened.
I think your impressions are extremely sincere, and I don't mean to discredit them or be defensive. You and I are in agreement, but I'm afraid this is one of those situations where not being able to converse face to face has led to misunderstanding and confusion.
Kind Regards,
Rupesh
But can't make my own judgement as I haven't measured, let alone heard, both in the same environment.I always thought those vmps products were capable of being loud.
- This signature is two channel only -
The sound level meter is an Extech Instruments 407727. I had been using it for several months taking both live and playback levels. Subjectively, I would generally agree with the levels as indicated on the meters--but it's really hard to tell. I do not think that there is a very precise correlation between how loud "it sounds" and how loud it measures.For the GMA Europa's, they were really putting out LOUD with no apparent distortion. I thought that Roy was going to turn it down, but no. I was listening to Aida. Soprano was wailing. Meter was recording A weighted peak @ 2 m. Up popped 106.x . No screech in the voice. It was loud! Still, I was surprised. I would not wish to continue listening that loud. By the way, the Europa literature indicates maximums at about that.
The VMPS 626R did not play quite as loud but they too were very, very loud. Don't get me wrong. I was hearing 98 dB peaks on the same source material. It might very well be that you could get a higher dB reading (without distorting) from different source material.
At home, I do not listen to music that loud. In the orchestra, we put in ear plugs when it gets that loud. I sit in front of the trumpets with the sound meter on my stand. The loudest peak that I have EVER recorded is 106. That was at one particular out of town venue where they had a huge gymnasium that sounded really dead (imagine that). Prior to that, the loudest that I had recorded was 104 dB. Sometimes you'll have half the orchestra wearing ear plugs, depending on the programming. Sometimes the orchestra peak might be 98 dB or less. Still a lot of people (including myself) would be wearing ear plugs. 98 dB is loud!
Back to the VMPS. They DO play loud, and they DO sound really good. At home, I personally never listen above 90 dB--so the whole loudness test didn't really matter. I bought the Europa's, but if I had bought the 626R's, I am sure that I would enjoy them.
If loud is important (or if you are just curious as I was), then maybe do your own tests with a sound pressure meter and pass on the results. I find it interesting. I recommend always take readings from the same distance, set to the same weighting and with the same source material.
Perhaps AA feedback helps a bit, but I think everyone needs to make his/her own personal audition and independent decision on these sorts of things. The next person might like the 626R's or something else better.
Thanks for reading.
Montobo,That's a pretty impressive statement, especially given the price difference between those speakers. I'm wondering, do you recall the electronics (especially the amp) that was driving the 626R and Europa?
Thanks in advance.
Impressive indeed, but realise that Green Mountain uses the finest drivers available. Make no mistake, these speakers are truly impressive, regardless the competition. They more than held their own against much more costly speakers in my listening tests. Give em a listen and decide for yourselves.
Sorry, no I do not recall. I am not a good audiophile.I can only say that they were auditioned during the last week in July, 2003 at:
Green Mountain Audio, Colorado Springs, CO. Roy was my kind host. He also showed me the factory. Fascinating. Not huge--maybe 3 people total.
Bolder Cables, Littleton, CO. Also a dealer for VMPS. Wayne was my kind host.
I do believe that both amps were SS. I am currently using (13 year old electronics) AVA Super Pas 3 & AVA T-3 Fet Valve 300i driving the Europa's with excellent results. It's such a huge step up in natural sound and clarity compared to older speakers I have used in my home (JBL studio monitors, B&W). Surprisingly, the Europa's are not bright to my hearing and CAN sound very warm if the warmth is in the recording or bright if the recording is bright. They take a gigantic break-in (200 hours of LOUD--don't even start to sound good until after 100-ish hours).
Thanks for reading.
for the price;great speakers indeed
Enjoy
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