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In Reply to: RE: The End of the World? Nah, Just the New WE 300B! posted by Gerry E. on March 21, 2020 at 09:25:45
Try one of these instead.
Follow Ups:
The new 300B designed and produced in China has made great progress in recent years,AN 4300E is a very common design,it is just a variant of fullmusic 300B (but not produced by fullmusic). The price of AN 4300E is not cheap,and it seems that the AN trademark is very useful.The latest 300B in China are LinLai E-300B,SuperTNT 300BK.300BQ. which is far better than AN 4300E in terms of design. These 300B prices are not more expensive than AN 4300E
Edits: 04/08/20
So how do they sound compared to others?
In a few days, there may be a comparison video of SuperTNT 300BK,300BQ, 300BE,LinLai E-300B,EML 300B and WE 300B
Makes me want to try a 300B amp again.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
More pictures of LinLai E-300B
Have you seen any of these or read any views of these tubes. I know that their 211 AN/PSVANE partnership is getting raves and of course the renowned Mastering Engineer Steve Hoffman has reviewed them - replaced his Elrogs.
But very few folks have or can afford the 211 amps.
The new Meishu Tonmeister is the first 300B amp that I have really liked - I didn't much care for the old one which was a little on the pipe and slippers side of the spectrum.
I am waiting for the 2a3 partnership as that's what I have. They're working on it.
This is Steve's 211 coverage.
....any review from him is tainted by the cozy relationship that he has with AN.
That is not to say that the tubes are not fantastic. Just that Papa is not an objective critic in this instance.
Steve gets loaners from a lot of makers. He keeps the ones he likes the best.
So you're saying the tube sucks and Steve is a paid off liar?
No chance at all he could be telling the truth and he genuinely thinks the tube is terrific?
My post is quite clear. I said that the tube may be fantastic. But you clearly have your own agenda. We can call you "little Papa" from now on, LOL.And BTW, get it right for once, just because your reviews make you an AN fanboy, don't make stuff up. As Papa says in the link below, Papa's $100,000 Ongaku was not a "loaner" as you say is so common, it was a present.
That fish wrapper, Dagogo clearly has reviewers that have no idea what they are talking about.
Edits: 04/04/20 04/04/20
Dear Viridian,
I can confirm that Steve is borrowing the ONGAKU Kensei it was not a free gift, but a long term loan, I trust that clarifies.
It will most probably be replaced by something even better at some point, Steve's feedback is very useful to us and I am sure our equipment helps Steve with his mastering, which was already amongst the best in the industry.
Sincerely,
Peter
Fair enough. I missed that. Obviously it could very well lead to a biased opinion.
He said Steve could not be objective in his opinion. I take that to mean there are stronger/greater unconscious biases involved than if he were not receiving "loaners". Seems reasonable.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
phenomenon, at least as it applies the the audio press. Recall Peter telling me some years ago that he was hoarding a LARGE supply of United Electronics 38111a. That's a pretty good tube! If his new PSVane is even close, then it's a winner.
Considering what Audio Note gets for their gear, would it make any sense at all to put their name on a crappy Chinese tune?
That said, SOME Chinese tubes sound GREAT fresh out of the box but after a few hundred hours fade.
Charlie's Kansas made WE300Bs held up well over time so I might go for round 2.
....not sure where you came up with that Ivan, maybe from RGA. Papa got a $100,000 amp as a present. Please see below:
Again, not all that unusual, although at $100,000 worth, maybe a bit unusual after all.
All that for a good review of a Chinese 300B? If so, Peter is slipping.
But then I seem to recall stories of Harry Pearson having a few pieces of gear for quite some time as well.
I don't think Peter is "slipping". Remember that cost of manufacturing that thing is multiple times less than 100k. Probably less than 10k.
Gents who participate in that forum can afford the best and and how much of advertising space you can get for $10k?? Papa is a world known recording engineer and to some much more credible than any of the reviewers. I think it was a well calculated gift.
And as for me I enjoy my fully black gated clones (still need some tweaking ) of AN Quests with REAL 2001 NOS WE300B tubes.
Dear Wojciech,
If you think it is possible to make an ONGAKU for $ 10K then come and work for me, because we cannot make one for twice that.
As I said in an earlier post, the ONGAKU Steve has is on loan, it is not a present.
Hope this explains?
Sincerely,
Peter
Dear Peter
I stand corrected. I'm told that you're not the easiest person to work for so I'd rather work for Emily :). All and all I wish you and the factory the best and 1:10 production costs to sale ratio as well.
Surely, trying to make a preamp from scratch using AN method of PTP wiring on the board made me realize what a pain in the arse it really is, and what skill is required for a clean assembly.
Warm Regards, W
Edits: 05/12/20
I think you are right about the extreme production to sale ratio at AN Wojciech.I know that long time ago at the golden age of tubes every radio, amplifier and so on was handmade and hand wired. They cost a fortune too in those days but never so exctreme as AN.
The differance is is that AN is "high end" , whatever that means, and for high end equipement manufactures ask what ever they Want to. If there is a fool who wants to pay for they are lucky.Probably Peter will say that the materials will cost a fortune but none of the materials used in the AN cost a fortune in the real world, only at AN.
Edits: 05/15/20 05/15/20
did anybody read this information?https://www.audionote.co.uk/output-transformers
specially the link for "more information"
What a crap they wrote there. Crap about the permalloy, crap about the "anealing at low levels performance" even crap about the copper frames.
I know most people don't know anything about transformer technology but what they wrote on the AN website is just crab, and they are misinform there costumers.
Edits: 05/22/20 05/22/20 05/22/20 05/22/20 05/22/20 05/22/20 05/22/20
i tried to find the article of Andy Grove about interstage.....
Although i really think Audionote is a rubbish transformer manufacture (what i mean they ask way to much for there transformers) i did like the article Andy grove wrote about interstages. Unfortunately they removed the article (also a link at Monolith Magnetics is removed : https://www.ankaudiokits.com/agrove_interstage.html ) Andy is the man who designs the transformers at AN and i think he knows how to make a decent transformer only he wears an iron suit from Peter Qvortrup. Peter is the asshole who makes the decisions at An and he thinks about money and not how to make a great transformer.
Edits: 06/22/20
Hi Wojciech,
I know I am a pretty hard task master, as I think anyone who expects an exacting set of standards met can be considered difficult, don't think my Daughter is any different, she is probably more so!
Point to point hard wiring is a very exacting and time consuming job requiring a considerable level of skill and dedication, which is why it is so rarely used.
The job offer stands, but as you now perhaps realise the 1 to 10 ratio between cost and retail is completely impossible, given material and labour costs.
Sincerely,
Peter
Seems reasonable to suggest that could lead to some bias.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Nt
Sure. Only point I'm making is the Viridian was referring to unconscious bias and perhaps not calling people liars etc.
I'll leave the 300b audiophile discussions to others.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
Just my opinion but I was never really happy with any of the PSvane 300B's including the expensive WE ones.
They were all really noisy and lacked dynamics.
Charlie has some new money behind him and someone that will keep him cattle prodded into making product. The prices are going to be much higher and volume lower to start.
I remember when they restarted the Kansas City plant they wasted a boat load of tubes. Then retooled the vacuum machines and then started making the tubes. Of course that happened again when Charlie had to move the plant south.
Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Hi Gordon,
Long time no speak, how are you?
I think it is important to comment on your issue with the Psvane 300Bs, we moved away from Shuguang and several of the other Chinese 300Bs to Psvane as their version not only sounded better but were less problematic and more consistent, but the down side is they are slightly more expensive than some.
Consider that we use around 2,500 300Bs per annum what would be the point of using an inferior tube?
Sincerely,
Peter
Have not found either to be true in my system..with either the WE300B or the ACME..300B
Meh. Whatever floats your boat. It amazes me that peeps obsess stuff at the margins of a paradigm when their paradigms are, well, shite.
Irrespective, you are worthy.
"Confusion of goals and perfection of means seems to characterise our age." Albert Einstein
I have found most globe 300Bs to be microphonic and even KR ST shaped tubes I have are too microphonic albeit they otherwise sound good.
The WE300B Charlie made in his Kansas days was the least micorphonic tube I can recall having tried.
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