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In Reply to: RE: That's interesting posted by Tre' on August 08, 2017 at 17:01:34
If, for example, one used multiple bypass caps of different values, that might not produce a different sound without visibly affecting the wave form?
Follow Ups:
That observation would depend on the accuracy and timing capability of your measuring equipment.It takes a VERY expensive spectrum analysis to get this done. Most
oscilloscopes and other equipment that Hams and Hi-Fi enthusiasts
might possess will mostly just show the result of the signal's
composite mix, and show very little of it's actual component parts.Your ears/brain, however, can easily separate out all of it.
The trick here is to understand what is individual and what is composite.
You WILL HEAR BOTH. The question is-- will you recognize both?
People process information differently. That's of minor concern
here because nearly all people will like a truly superior music
system even if they don't know what it is doing.That's about as close as we're going to get to understanding all of this.
Superior will indeed sound superior, but most people will never know
why. And most lab equipment can only rudimentarily even hint at hoping to measure the many, many facets of music.It remains for the people who enjoy something to build what they
enjoy the most-- as always.-Dennis-
Edits: 08/09/17 08/09/17
People want sound to be voodoo and it often isn't.
Dennis, I agree with most of what your saying "Timing" and musical expression is most of it....Problem is that most music is recorded wrong to begin, so no matter what you do most music will sound and time differently!
I have giving these thoughts for a long time nothing is perfect in our audio world NOTHING
Tre posses an interesting ideas on how you can Prove what your saying, you should give it a go, just because its recorded digitally it will still tell a story!
Prove them wrong!!
Lawrence
Proof is in great overall performance and consistent, reliable maintenance of that performance level.
That proof is only provided by actual long-term experience with
a music system, asking it to reproduce many different kinds of music
over time in many different settings and moods.
Playing a good, really dynamic Blu-Ray movie on a good machine is an
interesting and highly rewarding test of a good music system. Most systems, no matter how pleasing to the assemblers of them, will utterly
fail this test. Remember, a good system does EVERYTHING well.
When a system reaches that level of consistent, long-term performance,
most people who hear it for the first time will LOVE it-- its performance
will be obvious, and more time with it will reveal further delights.
There will also be some who can't figure out what it is doing-- which
should be EVERYTHING in recorded music. That person may prefer to
have something HE likes accentuated and some other things suppressed.
Such a person will spend a lifetime thirsting after HIS Holy Grail,
and he may very well partially achieve it. UNTIL his musical tastes change. If they do, then he has to start all over again!
There is nothing that anyone can do for that kind of guy. He may very well spend all of his time testing equipment instead of enjoying good music. What a waste of time!
What works best for most of us is to get EVERYTHING that is on a recording played back right, and every part of it presented in its own
correct time domain and event timing, yet have the entire mix correct also. Correct frequency response also plays a part-- a lesser one
to be sure, but still a necessary one.
Most experts do go after correct tonal response. That is only a tiny
fraction of what is needed.
To answer your question, no one can prove anything in music. What
we can, and should do, is play it with fun and gusto, and then find
or build equipment that can convey the fun.... ALL of it, please!
-Dennis-
Dithering
You said that caps diminish the dynamics of music.
I showed you one way you might be able to prove that.
Now you are saying that we can't prove anything.
You don't seem to be able to think straight.
That is, we were talking about one thing and now you are talking about something else.
Are you doing that on purpose because you can't answer my question like some flim-flam man?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Yes, Tre... but IS working because I would like to hear his creation... am fairly sure it sounds good; just not superlative.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
...and yes it does work ... To my ears..
And I must add using a similar type (surely not as refined) speaker
and amplifier..... I can say some of his ideas has worked quite well
for me.
Thanks Dennis !
no ass-Mooching !
Willie
It not his claims about the sound... is the claims about the "why". Voodoo explanations stated as facts. Similar to the guy that used to rave a bout the Hogan amps.... had more explanation for the sound than John Hogan himself had......
Like I asked Tre', and myself for that matter...what drives pointing out that Dennis is a Salesman? Or that he states beliefs held to a standard a religious fanatic would be impressed by, as 'facts'?
You are not at risk of buying into his silliness, or his foolishly justified creations.
As a follow up, what have the people who are done for you to justify what appear attempts to save them from their worthless selves?
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
What is there to agree with? It is made up science by Dennis...
It is for sure not science. It is however supposed to be taken that way...and totally sad that more folks can not recognize it for what it is.
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
you are right...I can scarcely solder twofers together....but i read a lot and I know BS when I see it. A lot of consumers in audio want to see unicorns and the horse of a thousand colors because a snake oil salesman says so
not even up to pseudo-science quality...LOL
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
So which is it?
1. Dennis really believes what he says (ie: he is ignorant and does not understand electronics at all)
or
2. Dennis does understand electronics just fine and this whole thing is just a con by a MFing con artist.
If it's the latter then I pissed.
I have wasted a lot of time and Dennis should be banned.
BTW I think you think it's number 2 and I'm starting to lean that way.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
but just remember...since it matters not to the people who believe Him, why do you seek to save them from themselves?
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
I'm not sure who the "them" are?"Tre posses an interesting ideas on how you can Prove what your saying, you should give it a go, just because its recorded digitally it will still tell a story!"
I agree with you.
Digitizing the analog makes it easier to detect any possible difference the cap would make. (All other digital anomalies aside.)
I thought I was careful not to say which way I thought the test would go.It is the way Dennis states his opinions as if they were proven facts that bothers me.
Just for fun let's say that I have a theory that if one cap causes a loss of dynamics then more caps would just cause more loss.
I would never state that theory as fact without first proving it.
Even if I proved it to myself though listening.
In the absents of technical proof I would just say "to my ears"......etc.
My original comment had nothing to do with capacitors and everything to do with Dennis.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 08/09/17
"... might that produce a different sound without visibly affecting the wave form?"
IMO If it sounds different then it is different.
Whether or not you could see the difference is a separate matter.
Again, in the digital domain, a properly devised algorithm would detect the difference.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
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