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In Reply to: RE: The Chinese Market posted by Triode_Kingdom on April 15, 2017 at 15:14:10
Please list 5 great Japanese audio brands making SET amps that never fail. And which LM have you heard that both sounds like carp and falls apart.
Chinese cars suck...they like some Indian cars are sold at.prices poor people can afford. So they are not particularly good cars. It's like those WE copy 300b tubes that apparently sound as good or better than WE 300b. Reliability is an issue but they are 1/10th the price and last half as long. You still come out way ahead buying the Chinese 300b.
The LM amps sound a lot better than numerous US amps at more money and barely anyone in Korea or Hong Kong buy American made junk. Does America make anything of exceptional quality? I'd like to know which specific examples of American or Japanese amps that are built better than the 219ia for the same price. And is a similar output tube. 24ish watts 845. The AN JINRO is better but nearly 4 times more expensive.
Follow Ups:
As you've explained, the only "advantage" to these third world products is cost. There are numerous reports about Chinese tubes and tube amps that haven't worked, right out of the box. Others failed in a few hours or couldn't be repaired a year later because the company was gone or the parts changed and no longer fit, or schematics not available, or the part values weren't marked, etc., etc. Chinese vs Japanese vs US? Right, let's all waste our time confirming what's already public knowledge.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I still don't see specific examples. Japan And later Korea was in the same boat in the 70s. Cheap junk. 20 years later they were utterly trouncing the American rubbish which comparatively is still rubbish. It's why the Americans wound up partnering with Mazda and Toyota and Volkswagen so they could learn how to design and build a car that lasted more than 1 year without becoming a paperweight.
And now some of the Kia and Hyundai models are proving to be more rugged.
Some Chinese companies suck. But it's ridiculous to suggest that there could not be a genuine wealthy Chinese audiophile who starts a company from passion and builds a great product. Contrary to popular belief this is not rocket science.
White guys are no more morally or ethically "nice" than anyone else. Take a walk through American businessmen fro Henry Ford to the slime at Theta Data to the man who is against made in China but is happy to sell ties and his daughter's clothing...all made in CHINA!
You are far better off buying Chinese audio from guys who are audiophiles and form their own company than some American sleaze who opens shop in China to save a buck and skirt pollution laws.
Of course I'm not suggesting you buy Chinese. But I know guys who have repaired a Lot of brands over the years and one noted that he had less issues with LM and Melody than he ever had with Rogue, ARC, CJ Jolida, and current McIntosh. Like Japan and Korea it takes but one company to turn the trend.
Having said all that I ultimately prefer the sound of Audio Note, because, in part, they make more parts in their equipment than ANY other hifi company by a monumental landslide. And that's why of all the gear I have purchased from them goes UP in value. I don't know of any other company that can make that claim except for collector stuff like Rogers LS3/5a and the other oddballs. But that is not sought for sound quality. There are people who simply collect the different versions and put them on a shelf as a collector display.
Lastly, with the new guy in charge, the pollution controls will now allow for certain metals to be brought back into use...not just asbestos in homes, so the Americans can now use tons of lead and possibly radioactive metals now. Woo hoo they will be able to compete again. Remember everything science says is wrong for the next 4 years.
REALLY,
I believe that you made some very solid/truthful points regarding Chinese products. There does exist a hierarchy of quality ànd it's inaccurate to lump them all the same. On the other hand it seems you are letting your personal political preference lead to hyperbole regarding the current U.S. president. Lots of leftist Pablum tossed around. Just my observation.
Charles
I am of a basic belief in a world of checks and balances. I don't want the guy selling milk to be the guy who checks to make sure the milk is safe.
I think whatever political party you or I belong to can understand the notion of greed. If a guy is selling milk and makes $50,000 a year selling milk decides he can use a wall caulking agent and make $50million and is also responsible for the testing - will suddenly always find the milk to be safe when it is not. Apply this to all industries.
It's called a conflict of interest. So any sane person or society should simply have independent checkers. You have law enforcement or whatever outfit you wish be an agency that makes sure stuff is safe or things such as slot machines in Vegas aren't crooked etc.
Now it is certainly reasonable to say - hey the checking outfit is doing a lousy job and needs to be funded better or better run or both. But you don't chuck it out and let the industry look after themselves. They only look after their bottom line.
I don't exactly get how basic freaking logic has become a political issue. Asbestos is factually toxic. Lead is an unsafe material for bullets that kill bald eagles. But once people get all conspiracy theory on stuff and doubt science and facts there is a problem.
And it applies to BOTH sides by the way. Climate Change is typically denied by every Republican but Liberals are the ones who are typically wrong on GMOs(which are safe) and vaccinations(which are safe). So both sides have their issues. Climate change is a bigger dumber issue because pretty much every solution cleans the air and the water. Those two things alone is worth doing right? Whether one believes in CC - one should still probably want to see the mountains and blue skies instead of grey skies and hacking up a lung 200 days of the year. One would probably like to drink tasty clean water from their tap. I can't believe it's only lefties who like clean air and clean water - when did that become a political thing?
Some of this doesn't really much matter - One thing I like about the US is that States still have some controls over what they do regardless of what is done federally.
Remember I do come from Canada, a country that is basically half capitalist half socialist. Okay maybe 30/70. You can still become a billionaire here so capitalism is alive and well. And I have lived in Wenzhou, China - a city that is so Capitalist that it makes the USA look like Socialist Denmark. The terms get bandied about - freedom, liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, communist etc and they usually get mixed up and blurred.
On any given topic a person could be pretty hard line conservative but then there are Republicans that are for gay marriage and pro-choice. Arlen Specter was a big example.
With the notion of Freedom - I have lived a lot of places in my life and the idea that one is more free or less free when every 4-5 years they get to vote for a two choice proposition both of whom are slaves to hidden financial masters isn't really freedom. If you have a piece of paper that dictates your rights and then the government can come along and trample those egregiously doesn't give you the ability to have the moral high ground. And other countries are watching. Guantanamo Bay is the prime example a created system to "get around" (loophole) the Geneva Convention and the constitution because those things are too inconvenient. Sure I get the need for it - I'm a realist and plenty of people don't play by the rules etc etc, but it does raise the point that all these Western Freedoms only exist until such time as those freedoms become inconvenient.
And while I think 45 is terrible the things that bother me most is hypocrisy. Have a Muslim ban - fine - I get that people are paranoid - and he ran on that and his voters think they will get blown up (even though statistically they will be more likely killed by a piano or lightning). But I get it. I disagree with the ban because I can read statistics - no ban on cars and guns that kill ridiculously more people (intentionally or accidentally). What bothers me is that 45 doesn't ban Muslims from the 5 countries he does business with and the worst terrorist offenders (Saudi Arabia and Turkey are arguably the worst) - but they're allowed in! You see THAT is what bugs me. The ban is bad but that's just a disagreement on policy - no big deal. What irks me and SHOULD irk 45's supporters is that he only does what he says up until the point it will hurt him financially. Blast all the companies that fired US workers who went to China - but then all his and his daughters clothes are made in China.
Cut meals on wheels (a financially piddly amount of money) but spend 10 times that at the golf course visits and extra security for the wife. Is it really necessary to let elderly people starve? Is that even a lefty thing? Wasn't it Reagan who supported Meals on wheels? I mean I just want the old Republicans back. If Joe the Mechanic pays 30% tax and Sally the teacher pays 30% tax then so should the CEO of GM. If the local bike shop owner has to pay 25% tax on revenue then so should Apple. Not Zero.
This isn't politics - it's just basic equality. I mean if 45 doesn't pay any income tax then why do you pay income tax? They want people bickering at each other and calling each other names - divide and concur while they make billions. Unite is right there in your country's name!
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