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In Reply to: RE: whats Better dynamically better quality but smaller or large awg?? posted by used-hifi on March 03, 2017 at 14:42:20
Wire gauge affects the sound but it is only one factor. Stranded versus solid. Silver versus copper. Teflon versus PVC versus cotton. All of these are important to sound quality.
The 12g Mil-Spec wire mentioned in this thread is unacceptable to me for full range applications since it rolls off the highs even when used singly.
The best sounding wire I have tried (so far) is Audio Note silver Litz. It seems to combine the best qualities of solid core and stranded wires, and it has excellent bass despite a small effective gauge.
"The 12g Mil-Spec wire mentioned in this thread is unacceptable to me for full range applications since it rolls off the highs even when used singly."
Nothing about the physical properties of 12 ga wire indicates that this should occur at audio freqencies. What degree of attenuation have you measured?
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
We have been told that you need 12awg to couple a 12AX7 plate to the next stage. Major improvements were cited. Dennis also claims there are "hundreds of amperes in musical peaks" at this stage in the amp.
We have been coached relentlessly on the need for double and triple runs of 19awg wire for signal path.
Now we hear this is all wrong. Too thick a wire kill the high end? What about all the claimed improvements over the years? You mean none of these people ever noticed that until now?
When is this BS going ot stop being condoned on this forum? Fortunately it's not tolerated over in DIY AUdio.
Did any of the followers consider the loss of highs may be the weak 12AX7 or equivalent driving into the output grid capacitance?
"Did any of the followers consider the loss of highs may be the weak 12AX7..."
More likely the acoustic bias of the listener. My amps always sound better after a cup of coffee. :)
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Just for the record : No one I know of, or myself, has ever used 12 AWG wire to connect a RCA jack's "hot" terminal, to the grid of a driver tube, ever. I think some posting have gotten it incorrectly. or are flustered.
Have fun, I do !!
Be ready for those strange answers.
Tk let's leave this for the subjective only NO measuring can measure what we hear so for cripes sake already
I'm fine with your subjective analysis, as long as you include the statement that it's "what I think I hear." Alternately, you could note this lack of frequency response is only an unverified opinion, and that your hearing hasn't been professionally tested to determine your ability to discern frequency aberrations with complex musical material. Without those qualifications (or something similar), your statement that 12 ga wire degrades high frequency response is simply nonsense. It has no place in a discussion of the physical properties of either wire or amplifiers, and it only serves to mislead other members.
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
I agree with most everything you have said, I would like to add that IMO I think the solid core wire is better over all in an amplifier, There is a togetherness a singular coherency that solid core wire posses, compared to the somewhat smeared and bloomed bottom end stranded wire posses, very noticeable in my 89db 3 way speakers :)
the only problem with solid core wire is the lighter gauges tend to work harden and break if you make too many changes to the amp. Of course, if you are one of those people who can build everything right the first time and don't make changes, it would be fine I guess. : )
Vinnie it's not really A problem as, ALL metal can work harden even stranded wire
As a test count how many times you can bend solid core wire before it actually breaks
You will be surprised! No worries trust me. I am an amateur machinest and so I know about metalurgy
AGREE. Good post !!
You are 100% correct about single 12 AWG Mil Spec ( m22759/11) rolling off highs inside amplifiers. See my post below. I will use it on the primary of my Power Transformers, from now on, but NOT "all over", sometimes doubled -up, as I was doing. Wanna retain those highs. Have stock now of the same Mil Spec wire in higher gauges, 14, 16 and 18, to try out next .
The 12 AWG can be used, nicely, amp to crossover, because that is a higher current situation, as the Output XFR steps the signal down.
Besides internally, my new-to-be-built monos, I will be rewiring my crossover, and path to ALTEC 802Ds from 14 AWG to 16 or maybe even 18 AWG next !!
We all experiment and learn. Thanks for posting, re-confirmed my journey .
Go flat instead of thin. With flat you get the advantage of thin while keeping the current carrying capability (you can go as wide as needed).
Thin works the best I have heard for internal wiring too (but it can be a pain in tight areas). My interconnects are all either thin silver foil or very thin solid core silver (one core per leg in very thin teflon sheath and twisted).
Sounds interesting. I would think choices of wire, your way, is limited, and costs are high.
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