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In Reply to: RE: Dennis Fraker posted by tube wrangler on May 24, 2012 at 01:31:47
"I am running all of this on a MAXIMUM of 1/12 watt per channel"That would be .084 watts.
Your speakers are no better than 95db, 1 watt.
With 1/8 of a watt you get 86db. Recorded music has peaks that are at least 10db above the average level.
"1/12 watt MAX-- per channel-- that's all the listening room can take"
So are you saying you listen at less than 79db (less than 76db from each of the two speakers)?
Have you measured this and is that really all your listening room can take?
Your listening room must have very poor acoustics. That's too bad. :-(
BTW I believe very little of what you say.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 05/24/12Follow Ups:
"I believe very little of what you say." -Tre'
Who does this matter to other than you???
Dennis is demonstrably not believable. (examples given on request)
I would think that would matter to anyone who reads his posts.
On the other hand, anyone who reads his posts will see that this is true.
I state this to him so that he knows that I'm not buying into his BS.
Let me ask you a question, why does any of this matter to you?
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
On the other hand, Mr. Fraker builds very good amps for sell to the public.
"It's the "best" amp I have ever heard .....period." - unsolicited opinion from this thread
I would think he knows something about building good amps and is willing to let the marketplace decide. I want to read what he has to say and I want to decide what its worth is.
It matters to me that I don't want you running him off the forum.
If Dennis would talk sense and discuss his claims in a reasonable, technical manner there wouldn't be a problem.Instead he makes nonsensical technical claims that he doesn't back up.
He can't get 110db from a 97db speaker with his amp that he rates at 1 watt. 8 watts won't even do that.
"The system that I build from the Great Plains Audio 604/704 series
is more efficient-- it hits about 96-97 db/watt.
Doesn't matter. Either system can be driven to over 110 db cleanly by the same amp."http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/70810.html
lakerfan says his amps sound great, I'm not disputing that. But when Dennis says things, like the above, I will not let them go UN-challenged.
I don't care if you want me to.
Again, if Dennis would just discuss these thing in a normal, grownup manner there would be no problem.
Here's another example of Dennis' nonsense.
"Believe me, there are 300 watt amps that can light up a 400 watt light bulb, but CANNOT deliver even 1/400 of a watt of useful acoustical energy into a speaker voice coil..... "
To start with, an amplifier does not deliver acoustical energy into a speaker voice coil. An amplifier delivers electrical energy to the voice coil and then the speaker delivers acoustical energy into the room.
And if I questioned him about this he would go off into a different subject containing more BS.
From any rational point of view it's just maddening to try to reason with Dennis.
The misinformation he gives, for the sake of honesty, can not be left to stand UN-challenged.
I don't know why that should be hard to appreciate or understand.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 05/25/12
I have no problem with post being challenged, but I think it more benefitual when done in an educational manner, not a condescending manner.
I appreciate the industry professionals here and look to them for education.
Tre has been posting in an educational manner over the past few years.....where have you been? Dennis and Jeff are all mumbo jumbo. no one is arguing what the amps sound like.....it is about technical mumbo jumbo, which you may not care about....if the amps sound good to you.....
Here 'ya go! As usual, I learn things from other things......
So, quite naturally, I got curious, and found this! (picture).
Since I haven't read it yet-- I offer no opinion....
---Dennis---
Thanks. Good luck with your business.
The iPod is a great accomplishment of electrical engineering.
I still want to hear from the designers of great sounding amps.
Well again, no one is arguing about the sound of the amps.....in case you missed that....no one is arguing about the sound of the amps.....this is an ongoing debate about the "Modern Tube Circuit Design" ..."Transfer Efficiency" and other terms made up by Dennis and Jeff....again, no one is arguing about what the amps sound like......I hope you captured that....now, I bet the the engineers that develope the Ipod can answer in a straightforward manner, basic engineering questions. also, please don't mention Dennis Fraker and Steve Jobs in the same breath. That is just foolish.
Edits: 05/27/12 05/27/12
No one is arguing about the sound of the amps.....
Hey Husky !!!!!!! I'm doing the analog thing for the first time since college.Tubes+Vinyl........ magical. Seems the 2A3 plus vinyl is my ticket to forgetting about the world these days.
Have a safe Connecticut Holiday.
No problem....How is life in the Windy City???? Thinking of a 2A3 myself actually! You into Jazz? I may have some LPs for ..... ps...I am sure those amps sound good. All of these argument have little to do with sound and a lot to do with technical credibility.......similar to the John Hogan debates, actually! (I miss John)...He was a terrific guy.
Edits: 05/27/12
Jazz ??? Most definitely. I grew up in a Rollins, Trane, post bop kinda home.
shoot me an email. I m lightening my LP load..
I once saw a JBL advert rating the Paragon system at 88db/watt.
The system that I build from the Great Plains Audio 604/704 series
is more efficient-- it hits about 96-97 db/watt.
Doesn't matter. Either system can be driven to over 110 db cleanly by the same amp.
Listening room is 13 ft. wide by about 24 ft., with a nice cathedral-peaked ceiling. The room averages about 8 ft. height.
The Paragon sits atop its own stage. This is 35 inches front-to-back, and is 120 inches long. A JBL Paragon is 104 inches wide (long).
The Paragon sits atop a stage that is 13 inches high. The top surface of my stage is made up of two layers of 1 1/8 inch marine plywood, glued and screwed together.. 2 x 12 rough-cut (full dimension, not planed)douglas fir timbers are used at 10 inch center-to-center spacing along the entire front width. These go front-to back, and are cut into the floor wood 1" deep. This is all screwed and glue-locked together.
The front of the stage is a 2 x 12 timber running the entire front of the stage, also cut into the floor, and screwed and glue-locked into the front-to-back timbers and to the top plates.
In our test lab, we have a replica of a room at RMAF, which is also 13 feet wide inside-- but the Hotel room is usually about 18 ft. long. In those setups, we run the Great Plains cabinets which we build across the narrow end of the room, firing into the riim's 18 ft. length. A bit of toe-in is used, and center to center spacing of driver center line varies in different rooms-- but about 57 inches will usually work OK.
Those cabinets have about 9 5/8 cu. ft. internal volume, and have found their way into quite a few homes. They work well on many different amps-- they are not anywhere near as fussy as the Paragon is-- because the Paragon is mixing right and left and doing stereo simultaneously. It is a SEVERE test of amp quality and power delivery.
It is hoped that this helps some of you out a bit with some of your own systems, and is the last of this series of posts.
---Dennis---
"I once saw a JBL advert rating the Paragon system at 88db/watt.
The system that I build from the Great Plains Audio 604/704 series
is more efficient-- it hits about 96-97 db/watt.
Doesn't matter. Either system can be driven to over 110 db cleanly by the same amp."
I thought you said your amp is rated at 1 watt?
How could it ever drive the Paragon or the Great Plains Audio system to 110db?
Like I said, I believe very little of what you say.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Tre', I have to agree with you. I find many of Dennis's claims and "explanations" to be far-fetched and, in some cases, nonsensical. This is not to criticize his products at all, since I've never seen or heard them, but only to question his knowledge and understanding as demonstrated in his posts.
Edits: 05/25/12
Is the object of audio to make sense to theory, or to make the very best performing products possible, with no explaining needed at all?
Are you interested more in hearing the result, true to the musicians, or, knowing the theory?
Jeff Medwin
I seek the truth, as most of us do, I believe. Just trying to interpret/make sense of Dennis's long-winded ramblings -- or do you think that's a waste of time? Perhaps you're right.
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