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In Reply to: Re:BS ALERT!!! posted by Mark (S-D) on January 18, 2001 at 20:57:34:
Shane is basically correct.
To hear a low powered SET at its best,in all aspects, one needs very efficient(100db or more) speakers, ie horns or comperable.
Jack
Follow Ups:
(( Shane is basically correct. ))Far from correct. He was trying to pass his opinion as fact.
(( To hear a low powered SET at its best,in all aspects, one needs very efficient(100db or more) speakers, ie horns or comperable. ))
Who says? Why not 99db or more, or 98db etc? Who set the 100db or more number? I have heard a all tube 2A3 SET amp with TAD horns and thought it was sterile, thin, metallic and harsh. That was far from SET at its best to me, but the owner loved those things and wanted to turn them up louder. What is best is just a opinion.
-Mark
> > > Why not 99db or more, or 98db etc? < < <
the 100 was aprox. I have some speakers that are 96 db-ESP bodhrans, nice speakers, and got good sound with SETs from them, but when I switched over to horns, I realized there was just so much *more* to the music that I was hearing.> > > I have heard a all tube 2A3 SET amp with TAD horns and thought it was sterile, thin, metallic and harsh. < < <
There *are* bad horns out there-many of the klipsch for example.
OTOH, what you heard could have been bad speakers, bad speaker placement, bad amps, or bad sounding tubes.> > > What is best is just a opinion. < < <
That may be, but it is still unfortunate to have an amp that is underutilized.
Jack
> > > Why not 99db or more, or 98db etc? < < <(( the 100 was aprox. I have some speakers that are 96 db-ESP bodhrans, nice speakers, and got good sound with SETs from them, but when I switched over to horns, I realized there was just so much *more* to the music that I was hearing. ))
How do you know 90db horns would not sound just as good?
> > > I have heard a all tube 2A3 SET amp with TAD horns and thought it was sterile, thin, metallic and harsh. < < <
(( There *are* bad horns out there-many of the klipsch for example. ))
This is common when someone doesn't like horns. There are many people in this forum with this particular speaker in their homes. The same people telling me "my horns are magic with SET and your speakers aren't".
(( OTOH, what you heard could have been bad speakers, bad speaker placement, bad amps, or bad sounding tubes. ))
Bad sounding tubes? GMAB! I can not put into words how bad it sounded to me. The speakers got all kind of rave reviews on mags and in this asylum.
> > > What is best is just a opinion. < < <
(( That may be, but it is still unfortunate to have an amp that is underutilized. ))
In your opinion :-)
-Mark
> > > Bad sounding tubes? GMAB! I can not put into words how bad it sounded to me. < < <
I've heard several current production 2A3s that were cold edgey metalic and gave me a headache
They also got raves in various mags and on this asylum. Go figure.
My point being, there are many variables tha could have caused the bad sound you heard-speakers are only one of them.
You are entitled to your opinion, I'll just lump it with those who rave about Bose.
Jack
(( I've heard several current production 2A3s that were cold edgey metalic and gave me a headache They also got raves in various mags and on this asylum. Go figure.
My point being, there are many variables tha could have caused the bad sound you heard-speakers are only one of them.))You can't be serious? Some tubes sound better, but for a tube to make a system sound like it was from hell is not realistic at all. It was *very* obvious the speakers were doing all the damange.
((You are entitled to your opinion,))
Correct, and when i disagree you don't have to make crazy claims like it was the tube that made it sound bad.
((I'll just lump it with those who rave about Bose.))
Maybe you heard Bose with a bad sounding 2A3? :-)
-Mark
Yes, there are some 2A3s that just plain sound edgey, and actually make me irritable when I listen to them.I wont mention the brand, but you know of them.
You apparrently dont have that much experience with different 2A3s.I am not saying that it can't be the speakers,since I haven't heard them, but you would be surprised that other things could have the same effect.
Jack
(( Yes, there are some 2A3s that just plain sound edgey, and actually make me irritable when I listen to them. I wont mention the brand, but you know of them. ))Will i get a tube with a NOS?
((You apparrently dont have that much experience with different 2A3s.))
Your right. Only one pair.
((I am not saying that it can't be the speakers, since I haven't heard them, but you would be surprised that other things could have the same effect.))
I'm 100% sure it was the speakers.
-Mark
(( I've heard several current production 2A3s that were cold edgey metalic and gave me a headache They also got raves in various mags and on this asylum. Go figure.
My point being, there are many variables tha could have caused the bad sound you heard-speakers are only one of them.))You can't be serious? Some tubes sound better, but for a tube to make a system sound like it was from hell is not realistic at all. It was *very* obvious the speakers were doing all the damange.
((You are entitled to your opinion,))
Correct, and when i disagree you don't have to make crazy claims like it was the tube that made it sound bad.
((I'll just lump it with those who rave about Bose.))
Maybe you heard Bose with a bad sounding 2A3? :-)
-Mark
Jack
Find me a good pair of horns for under a grand and I will seriously consider them. I would love to try a pair of La Scala's for instance, but my budget does not allow for $2000 for speakers. If you know of any I would like to hear about them.
Vince
> > > Find me a good pair of horns for under a grand and I will seriously consider them. < < <BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Barring tubes, cables and carts, I can't find a good ANYTHING for under a grand.
Jack
Then you are definetly not into DIY, because I have built a whole bunch of great gear for less than a grand total by using very high quality but inexpensive surplus military parts and other parts that are not as big name but have good sound and have worked for other people.
Vince
> > > Then you are definetly not into DIY, < < <
DUH!> > > I have built a whole bunch of great gear < < <
Yea, yea, Yea-every DIYer makes the best gear in the world.
*rolling eyes*
what have you compared them to?
How many comercial amps, and which ones, have you compared your gear to?
Great is a relative term. just because its homemade, doesn't automatically mean it is great.> > > for less than a grand total by using very high quality but inexpensive surplus military parts < < <
I know DIYers who would spend about that much just on OPTs, and insist you can't get good sound without .Jack
PS the Wright WLA12 preamp is a good product under $1K-I stand corrected.
Yeah, yeah my butt. More expensive does not automatically mean better. It is just another form of snobbery and the hi-end salons thrive on it. Have a ball, Jack.
Vince
> > > Yeah, yeah my butt. More expensive does not automatically mean better. < < <I agree-My current system cost a tiny fraction of my old one, and sounds MUCH better.
Neither does homemade.> > > It is just another form of snobbery < < <
You mean like the DIYer attitude? Homemade MUST be best?
you never did answer my question-what comercial amps did you compare yours to? any? What is your reference for claiming great sound?> > > the hi-end salons thrive on it < < <
I dont go to audio salons.
> > > Have a ball, Jack. < < <I am. Especially when I read your posts.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Jack
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