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Hi, first time posting, so here goes.I am the current (proud)owner of an AN system, which consists of CDT Two/II, TT Two arm 2 IQ3, DAC2.1x balanced, Oto se phono, AN-JLx. My cables and interconnects are AN Lexus
I need advice, I am simply looking to improve the system, but in no way feel short changed with the Oto & J's, do I;
1. add a Meishu Silver
or
2. upgrade speakers (AN-E), interconnects etcAny advice would be greatly appreciated
Follow Ups:
I recently upgrade from an Oto Line to an M3 line and Quests Silver sigs. Source is an AN CD3.1x . Interconnects are all ANVx.
I have to say that the biggest impresion from this change was just how good the Oto is. I have had the M3 Quests combo for about 4 months now. I had the Oto for about a year and a half.
Sometimes I find myself missing the Oto (and yes I still have it)
My suggestion would be to stick with the Oto. I have found that in mine the RCA EL84 sounds the best. Some mods can really help the Oto and Im sure many out there would be glad to help on that front. Mine has the AN cap upgrade, Internal source wiring change and numerous resistor upgrades.
That little Oto has to be one of the best buys in Audio.
By the way I no way mean to imply the M3/QSS isnt a fantastic combination. I have been trying different tubes and am getting there :) Now to the Source!
Have Fun
"Dont call me Otto"
Dear Flickkit,Which speakers are you using, just out of interest?
Sincerely,
Peter Qvortrup
Hello Peter, I am using Zingali HM112s.
I recently rolled some Tongsol 6SN7WGTA in the QSS, This improved the upper detail and clarity quite a bit over the Sylvanias. In fact I was amazed at the difference, maybe a bit too bright. Unfortutunatly this was at a sacrifice in the lower end strength. 300Bs are Sophia Electrics or Western Electrics.Thank you for your interest
I understand your experience. It's not that the OTO is better than an M3/Quest Silver Sigs, which it's not. The M3/QSS combo has it all over the OTO in refinement, suavity, detail, and many other things. It's just that you prefer EL84's to 300B's, which is no heresy. So do I. I went from an OTO to Neiros, with 2A3's, which is a huge jump, financially.I wish to hell Audio Note would come up with an integrated amp with 2A3's, but that requires an investment in parts that's beyond my ken and no guarantee that a lot of folks (besides you and me) would end up preferring the 2A3 tube. They do have a prototype of a stereo amp with one 2A3 per channel which will put out around 4 watts, but that won't answer for most folks with speakers with less than 98 db sensitivity.
Whether Utility man would prefer the Quest SS, with their extraordinary transformers, to the OTO is an unknown. I suspect, like most people, he would. I mean it does what it does extremely well.
But if he's like us, he'll have to play with his OTO or sell off something large and go for the Neiros.
Nice problem to have.I have the Oto J/Spe and The Spe I think is quite a big jump over the copper wired speaker. I believe in making big jumps when you upgrade (and AN usually makes big jumps even with not too much money).
So I can see say going to the E/Spe - speakers still make the most obvious difference to the ear. The problem is that Oto Phono SE may run into an issue driving the E's bottom end although Bob Neil or someone else may make better comments on that. Still you gain an octave and none of the other upgrades are going to that.
All that said the J is no slouch and has plenty of bass and depth - some people I know prefer the J's sound to the E in a number of areas. Depends on which E and which J. A J/Spe I would take over an E/LX for example. If you're music is not pedal organ then added bass may not be all that important.
Someone also said they would skip the Meishu and I agree. The Meishu is very good but I think the separates are the better way to go. But don't knock the OTO Phono SE. I have heard a LOT of far more expensive amplifiers over the years and many do things better but there is something very simplistically right sounding about the OTO. It's one of those don't trade up -- try and keep it in a second system or you'll regret it one day kinda thing.
Frankly the wiring is the last thing I would do -- it makes no sense to use different cables - the whole thing oughta be wired with the same cable - that has always been my contetioousl logic issue with cables -- people spend thouasands on cables which go from an amp internally wirted with crap and then feed a speaker using zipcord. AN is different granted but it still makes no sense to use copper in the speaker with silver going to it. Weakest link and all that.
With AN I would try to get silver wiring all the way, E/SPe or J/Spe speakers, M3 and Quests, and find an AN TT3 (Voyd). The Dac 4.1 CDT TWo/II is the best I have heard from digital -- sadly it makes everything else so dreadful as to be unlistenable.
didn't see Bob's reply - just do that - it's easier.
What percentage of time is spent playing vinyl versus CD?Donald North
Still 70/30 in favour of CD, 3 kids to run around!
You should go to the source(!) and drop an email to Peter Qvortrup at Audio Note. He has always been very responsive and helpful when I have contacted him.
This is one man's opinion, but a man who has been monkeying around with Audio Note gear for a couple of years now.
FRONT ENDCDT 2 II: A superb transport. Good enough to carry you up to a Dac 4.1 Balanced and not fall short. Keep it.
Dac 2.1 Balanced: This is probably the former model, which is no longer made. A new one is due out early in 2007 that will likely be as good as the current Dac 3.1 Balanced, which is also no longer made, to be replaced by a new model later this year. Sell this one and get the new 2.1 Balanced when it's available. Actually, get the best dac you can afford. Significant differences at each step and the improvements are carried through the whole system. Duh.
Connect them with a one-meter single run of Sogon, which will make a dramatic difference. I recommend Sogon digital interconnect in the cheapest systems I sell and it always has a huge effect. VERY big bang for admittedly big bucks.
At some point, get an Arm 3/Vx, a moving coil IO1 with a S4 step-up. Much more refined. The cartridge change is a knock-out.
AMP
The OTO is a great little amp and one of the best values in the line. Keep it until, as Budrew suggests, you're ready to jump to an M3 and Quest Silver or Silver Signature.
SPEAKERS
The J/LX's are very good, much better than I thought as I listened smugly to my J/SPe's. Keep them until you upgrade your amps, then go for the new E/SPe HE's. Or E/LX Signatures. Be sure to put a mixture of lead shot and sand in your AN stands. Cheap and impressive upgrade.
CABLE
If you're going to upgrade cable, begin at the source end. Sogon between the transport and dac as I said above; VX between the dac and OTO. Lexus is fine as speaker cable, it's what your speakers are wired with. When and if you move up to the SPe's, then convert to SPe speaker cable.
Bob,
Where would you insert biwiring in your list of improvements ?
At the beginning, if possible, mainly because while the improvement, while noticeable, is not dramatic, it's hard to turn a single-wired rig into a bi-wired one, especially with Lexus, which is has a great many strands of wire to contend with!
I've cut open Lexus wires to reterminate, and I'm not sure how you would biwire this cable. There's virtually no design in the AN-Lexus cables, or most of their cables from what I've seen. It's just one litz grouping of stranded copper conductors.
Good advice and clears tne order of importance for this journey of mine.
My only issue with seperates is the space needed, my electronics sit in a small bay window with TT to side(speakers out in main room corners either side of bay) to squeeze everything in may be impossible.A meishu would fit on the lower shelf of my rack, I doubt Quests would? So would a Meishu Silver be up for the job long term?
I guess I should't think of room aesthetics but it creeps in (my wife has grown to my way of thinking - used to have B & W 803 in this room!)
Again your advice is most grateful
The Meishu is a good amp, but its preamp section is comparable to an M2, if memory serves. There has been talk about upgrading the Meishu, but nothing is imminent that I know of. (It's also a VERY heavy component which sometimes has trouble surviving the loving care of shippers.) The Meishu Silver is good upgrade from the standard Meishu, the Silver Signature is a fairly dramatic upgrade, which I concede it should be for the price. But it truly is. Budrew, who was a little iffy about Quest Silvers at one point, had his doubts removed by Silver Sigs. You might ask him about that. The move from Silver to Silver Sig in the Meishu is essentially the same as it is with the Quests...and Conquests.The usual move is to put monoblocks on maple amp stands near the speakers rather than on the main equipment shelf, thus shortening the speaker cable run. When one is bi-wiring with silver cable (down the road in your case), it's nice to have that run as short as possible! I don't know how wives feel about monoblocks on amp stands, since mine is a model of indifference on such matters.
Again, I would put an amp upgrade after an upgrade to the source. That will give you more time to mull over the amp question. And who knows? By then the Meishu may inherit a preamp section upgrade, though it might also become bigger yet!
For what it's worth, a customer of mine with a CDT 2, OTO, and J/Lx's just upgraded his transport to the Mk II and put a used Dac 4.1 Balanced into his system and is crowing about the transformation they brought. Linn's Ivor Tiefenbrun (sp) preached for at least a decade about how a Linn LP12 could do more for a system than any electronics or speaker upgrade he could imagine and frequently demonstrated this bit of wisdom at shows. Source, source, source. Especially when you have a little jewel like the OTO and J's to complete the tale.
Actually it was the Meishu silver I did not like. But the Conquest Silver Sigs paired with the M3 preamp are on another planet. Simply outstanding.I agree with Bob that I would start with the source. The biggest change and improvement in my audio education was getting an Audio Note DAC. I started with the 2.1x balanced and now have the 3.1x balanced. This DAC (paired with the AN CDT2/2) has made virtually any amp I've had sound good. In effect, the rest of your system is only as good as your source. A level 4 DAC would be a dreamspot, but that level enters the stratosphere of cost. For the rest of us, as Bob says on his web site, most audiophiles would be happy to land forever with the 3.1x balanced.
Funny, I should know better - having gone through the full active Linn thing years ago, source source source says it all.I get clouded by system balance thinking, but I recall having an original Naim Nait on the end off a fully Armargeddon/Aro LP12!
I aim to spend wisely and your advice will be taken on board.
I would upgrade the speakers first.
The difference between the ANJ/Lx and Spe is quite large.The Spe (or higher level) will present details in the music of which the Lx is incapable, and yet be amazingly smooth.
The higher level speaker may allow you to better appreciate your existing amplifier. It will also allow you to hear the benefits of upgrading to a higher level amplifier.In general, I think the strategy should be when moving up a level, to upgrade the speakers first.
You should consider the ANE/Spe in your budget. It would be a huge stepup from your ANJ's. A double whammy - more capable speaker to start, and more refined according to the level.
However, you should try to audition the ANE's before buying, just because they are a different speaker, and may not be your preference. I've heard that some people prefer the ANJ because of their room size or other circumstance.
My gut feel is to tweak round my existing amp, I guess to get the most out of it. My room is border line for E's.J's spe or better could be the way to go along with improved interconnects.
Many thanks for the advice
Agree 100%.Yes, I forgot to mention I/C's. The upgrade in my system from Lexus I/C's to AN-V's was very notable. More clear and dynamic sound. The Lexus sounds wooly by comparison. This is a very cost effective upgrade, especially if you can get away with 18 inch I/C's.
I still have copper speaker cables though, as I can't justify the cost of 10 foot silver biwire. I've also heard that the combination of silver IC's and copper speaker cable is a good balance. (Maybe said to console myself).
Good luck!
AN-V is superb cable. I use it as standard and also have inside my amp, phono stage, and DAC. Also use it as a digital cable.When I first tried it, it made a huge difference to the tonality of my then system.
How would you compare AN-V to Vx? would the cost jump be justified?
The AN-Vx sounded noticably thinner in my system. This thinness isn't necessarily bad since AN's gear (particular speakers) sound naturally very full and "rounded" to my ears. However, I was not a fan of the AN-Vx and sold it after only a short period. I actually preferred a non-AN cable in my AN system, but I know you true AN junkies think such mixed marraiges are blasphemy ;-)
Not at all but I've never heard that particular criticism of Vx. I should ask compared to what? Cardas perhaps? There is no absolute thinness or thickness, but Vx is thicker than V, thicker than JMR's cable, thicker than Audience Au 24. Thinner (or rather more open sounding and radiant) than Lexus and definitely thinner than any and every cable George Cardas ever dreamed of making, etc. Within the context of Audio Note cable, it is about normal in thickness to my ears, which is why I find the V a bit thin.And to keep this relativity thing going, I wonder how many people find Audio Note speakers full and rounded? Not compared with Spendors or Harbeths or Reynauds certainly. But probably compared with Thiels, B&W Nautilae, Triangles, and maybe even Merlins.
Silly game, eh?
Hmm. I find the Au24 sounds much fuller then the Vx.I know it's all relative; I find AN speakers err on the side of warmth and roundness relative to the speakers I've experienced as well as my personal definition of "neutral." It makes beautiful music, but IMO it's far from "neutral." This is not to diminish what AN speakers does exceedly well, which is to convey music in a very pleasing manner.
To my ears, while the AN-V gets some openness into the equation, the Vx, with more strands of silver, brings in some (needed?) fullness, especially if you're used to the fullness of Lexus. I think, beyond the run from the transport to the dac which "should" be Sogon, Vx is as good as your interconnects ever need to be.
Bob, My minds made up, I'll go for the latest Dac 3.1 Balanced, Sogon from Dac to Trans and AN-Vx from Dac to oto. Should do for the time being and come within budget. (I may try and squeeze and Arm 3 in also - my Arm 2 is old version based on RB300)Thanks again for your input
Regards
The bottom line is that there are a number of ways you can approach the upgrade to your system.So long as you keep with AN equipment, and don't jump too far ahead up the levels with any one piece of equipment, you are onto a winner which ever way you go about it and the upgrade process should keep you happy for years to come.
Just make sure that you don't leave any one area of the system too far behind.
The "latest Dac 3.1 Balanced" isn't due out until "early December," and it should be a beaut. Big improvement in your analogue front end would be the move to the moving coil Io1 cartridge with the AN-S4 step up. You're in for some good fun, U-Man.
Following up on Vincin's post below, from what I've been told the Meishu is about on-par with a Kit1 Signature. I have the PQ Kit1 Signature (with the double C-Core O/P transformers) which is a significant step up from the Kit1 Signature.The point is that if you consider yourself capable of building something yourself, you could end up being able to upgrade a number of things for the same money instead of just one and still end up with top quality AN gear.
I have a kit building website where I show myself making a number of AN kits - that should give you a good idea about whether you would be up to it or not. If you are, you should find it to be a very reqarding passtime.
Excellent - Yes I fully understand - Just not sure if I'm up for the first build being the PQ Sig! - looks the business though.Food for thought.
Thanks again for the reply.
What's your budget? Hold off on the amp upgrade until you can get separates (M3 and Quests, or something like that). I would first upgrade the DAC or speakers. Cables would be nice too, but I would get the "infrastructure" in place first.Your transport and TT2 will carry you through for a long time.
Check out the Amherst Audio web site for some helpful thoughts on matching system configurations.
Thanks for the reply;My budget is aprox £4,000 sterling. I know that the latest Meishu Silver has improved components etc but I take your point re separates.
My thinking regards cables would be to move on to AN V or Vx interconnects for both DAC & Transport.
Other research leads to E's with Meishu or better separate's and K's or J's with Oto/Soro. I guess its about where you want to end up.
do both :)or you can build their kit 300b amp, I've had the OTO before I built the kit with the better C core trannies, its a huge huge jump in musical enjoyment! plus all the fun you can have with building kits and upgrading them!
There is a Audionotekits forum here, have a look.
good luck.
Doing both at this stage is funds prohibitive but point taken.The kits do interest me. Which AN kit would compare to the Factory items?
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