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2A3 or 45

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Paul Folbrecht

(A)

I hate to start a thread with such a silly, general topic but I'm considering a Fi 2A3 vs. 45 and am gathering as much information I can about the two tubes. I have a 2A3 amp I like a bit no op to hear a 45 of any sort. However, what I *read* about the 45 makes me think I'd likely prefer it to 2A3s. I favor speed, tranparancy, and body with as little softening as possible and don't care for 'added' bloom - if that's what it is. Speakers are 101dB Zus so probably the lower power of the 45 is not an issue at all.
Circuit aside - are there general characteristics of 2A3 vs 45 we can pull out? Am I right in thinking the 45 tends to be a bit sharper and soundstage as well, if not better than, the 2A3?

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Re: 2A3 or 45 - hconner 09:14:06 09/02/06 (6)
Paul
First of all you can't go wrong with the Fi, I have a Stereo version of the Fi 2A3 which I have had for about 3 months. I listen to both the Sovtek 2A3 which came with the amp plus a pair of Emission Labs Solid Plate 45's (changing the rectifier to a 5Y3WG). In my case I was surprised that I actually enjoy the 2A3 over the 45. I listen to mostly female vocalist plus some Chicago Blues. The 45 beats the 2A3 when it comes to warmth but loses ground on detail (which is what I like). If it helps I am using a pair of Cain & Cain Abbys with their Baily Subwoofer.
Herb
- And to add to the EML posts... - RC Daniel 14:08:36 09/02/06 (4)
  there a few experienced folks that have experimented with the EML 45 and 2A3 variants who believe the EML 2A3-S is all that the 45 is and then some. They like it more than either of the EML 45s or the 2A3 mesh - by some margin. It would also work in the Fi without mods.
  The 2A3-S may be worth considering: expen$ive, tho being designed to run at 28W dissipation (rather than just having a 28W capable plate) it should last a good while at the usual 2A3 op points.
  Cheers
  Raymond
  
  Ultra-consumers: Spending money they do not have to buy things they do not need to impress people they do not like.
  - Re: And to add to the EML posts... - JimBop 15:59:24 09/02/06 (3)
    Where do I purchase the EML tubes, and what are the prices for the 2A3-S?
    - from the source - Ed Sawyer 09:05:08 09/03/06 (0)
      www.jacmusic.com IMHO is the best bet.
      -Ed
    - Or here... - RC Daniel 02:18:17 09/03/06 (0)
      .
      Ultra-consumers: Spending money they do not have to buy things they do not need to impress people they do not like.
      RAM Labs (Open in New Window)
    - Re: And to add to the EML posts... - Paul Folbrecht 17:49:06 09/02/06 (0)
      If you're in the US, http://www.tubesusa.com/ has them.
- Re: 2A3 or 45 - njjohn 09:58:09 09/02/06 (0)
  I can say in the two diy gemini type of amps which play a 45 or 2a3, both sounded better with the 2a3.
  I think the 45 is a little harder to get right when putting an amp together. I heard a few that while they had nice characteristics, just weren't balanced right.
  But getting it right can lead to a certain realism that I have not really heard with other output tubes so far.
Re: 2A3 or 45 - amarok 08:38:28 09/02/06 (2)
Hi Paul,
I have the Fi 2a3 monoblocks and LOVE them...I will never sell them...
I found Emission Labs 45's work wonderfully in this amplifier (with a change of rectifier tube to 5Y3G) and a friend and I liked it better than any of the 2a3's I had. This was on a 96 dB open baffle design. So,
with your speakers, if you got the Fi 2a3, you could have 'two amps in one' and be able to play 45's wonderfully as well as 2a3. Just a note, I did not find any of the NOS 45's to work as well, they seemed to lack bass power in the Fi's.
- Re: 2A3 or 45 - Paul Folbrecht 09:52:26 09/02/06 (0)
  As another note - based on everything I've read - the EML solids would be the 45s to run. Sounds like almost a whole 'nother tube relative to the NOS 45s.
  Again - if I ended up running them full time - probably better to get the 45 tuned Fi.
  Now I'm thinking of going out to NYC and having a listen sometime at Fi. Like you, I think this will be an amp I don't sell, ever.
  (I have found that the cure to endlessly playing with equipment is buying new. Then I can't sell without taking an unacceptable financial loss!)
- Re: 2A3 or 45 - Paul Folbrecht 09:07:10 09/02/06 (0)
  Thanks, amarok. I know Don't 2A3 version can play 45s - but if you really want to use 45s he can do a specialized 45 version with different OT windings that he feels shows the 45 a bit better - thus the question! If I were to end up running 45s it makes more sense to order the 45-specific version.
  FYI, he says the 2A3 version plays 45s better than the 45s plays 2A3s. 'Nother words, if you do want the real option of running 2A3s, probably get the 2A3 version, which is the "traditional" versions.
How about some analogies - njjohn 08:23:07 09/02/06 (3)
These are the upper echelons of sound, but I just don't think the 2a3 can compare to the 45.
First let me say this. Stereo reproduction is really quite amazing. It is so good. The way it can reproduce sound in the home is amazing. It really does it so well that it is elevated to an art form.
Now, let me go back to the previous discussion of pp vs set. PP can be great, can produce a very good sound something that you can want, a $20-30,000 sound, a best in show sound. But when you get right down to it, it cannot compete with a set sound. It is a pack of lies and misinformation that pp can compete with sets. Not when you get to the finest level of nuance and sound.
Here's an anology. PP is like the mountain ranges on the East Coast, and set is like the Rocky Mountain ranges including the Canadian Rockies which I haven't been to. PP is like a drive on the beautiful Blue Ridge Parkway; sets are like driving on any remote Canadian highway surrounded by lakes and those hardy evergreens. Set is way more spectacular and deeper reaching into the psyche.
The 2a3 is like a spectacular view on a mountain range around 8,000 feet. A limited but spectacular view, and the 45 is like reaching a plateau at 12,000 feet with 360 degree view.
But going by what you are looking for, speed and transparency, the 2a3 may have more of that. The 45 is just more balanced and right than probably anything else.
- Re: How about some analogies - Paul Folbrecht 14:21:15 09/06/06 (1)
  As an added thought, these types of musings are what is pulling me towards a 45 amp.
  I was into tubes for a long while ignoring SET because it sounded (what I read/heard about it) too esoteric for me. The lowish power, horrid specs, etc., just drove me away from real consideration. When I finally tried a SET amp, I discovered that the hype was correct and there was just something extra there. I enjoyed music through it more than anything else, hands-down. This was 845s.
  Since so many SET diehards seem to revere the 45, my guess is that there is something extra magical there as well. You just don't hear as many compliments of the same type going to the 2A3 (and certainly not the 300B, which I feel is the most overrated tube out there based on what I've heard (please no flames)).
  I am planning on going to RMAF this year and maybe there will be some good stuff to listen to there. I'll have to ask Don of Fi if he'll be there.
  - The 45 - njjohn 08:58:36 09/10/06 (0)
    It has to be the finest output tube ever made.
    It is really just on the mark. Tht's how to best describe it.
- Re: How about some analogies - Paul Folbrecht 09:11:08 09/02/06 (0)
  Thanks for the thoughts John. I had also made the journey to SE via PP and feel I'm mostly likely there to stay.
  Well-done zero-feedback PP can get awfully close but it's not the same. Where I found the greatest difference was in detail retrieval/microdynamics. My first SET amp had me playing all my favorite stuff on an all-night bender hearing things I'd never heard before.

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