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In Reply to: Protection posted by dave c on August 9, 2006 at 20:31:15:
worth their cut for certain....
Follow Ups:
The Floyd were a bit guilty about leaving Peter and continued to pay him long after they had gone on to mega-something.
Thus they curiously underwrote a lot of development for the punk scene in Britain.
Peter remains someone who has never lost sight of what it was he thought music could and perhaps should be about.
I might compare him to Joe Boyd, but more management and much more political.
Definitely fodder for a long thread. For a few short years it seems like he was the center of the universe. He clearly mucked up a few things, e.g. not sending the Incredible String Band out during the rain at Woodstock, but very, very rarely has so much talent been in the orbit of one person at one time. I actually can't think of anyone analogous but it is early and I'm only on my second cup of coffee.
.
If you're going to mention Bill Graham you almost have to mention Chet Helms in the same breath. Graham seems to have had better business acumen along with the ego, toughness and willingness to be nasty that are often part of that package. However, if we're talking solely about the development of the SF music scene I think Chet was at least equally important.
My impression (I was in the bay area at that time, but was hardly an 'insider') was that Graham was a real entrepeneur while Helms was a hippy.
Graham was a tenacious bulldog. I was there the night that Weir injected LSD into a can of orange soda with a syringe, graham, always Leary of the Dead trying to dose him, opened said can and drank the soda....
He was considerably mellower after that....
He spent hours on stage with a tambourine ...
Nice I'm sure.
Maybe to digress a little, I saw alot of shows down there.
every weekend it was Quicksilver, Country Joe, Santana,
Greatfull Dead, Jefferson Airplane, et. al.
Only 3 bands really impressed me.
1) Jefferson Airplane
Sounded just like their records but louder
And dressed 'rich hippy' (not raggedly like the Dead)
2) Mobey Grape
(Saw them at (IIRC?) Machinist all)
Even tighter than the Airplane with equal cleaness of sound
3) Sly and the Family Stone
(House band at 'Frenchie's' in San Leandro)
Introduced me to syncopation ......
at the Embers in Redwood City (2 blocks from home....a long 2 blocks) and Moby was the Best. God, the acts that you could see, cheap, close and loud.
LOL ;)
Best I ever seen (not musically but of interest)
Me and my buddie seen an ad for the opening of a new bar
in the Mission Disrict. On Mission in fact.
Janis and The Holding Co.
Nobody there but me and my friend and the band.
The stage was the top of a big basshorn .....
Pretty intense ...
No chicks so we left .............
At that time alcahol wasn't 'hip'
I was living in Loma Mar...inland from Pescadero...had to be 1966...out in the Redwoods with my first wife, Suzi and our dog.
Hanging in Haight on weekends...So...
They hold a 2 day international bicycle race all through the hills from the coast into La Honda...past Kesey's....round the mountain thru Loma Mar and into Pecadero. On that Friday and Saturday nights, the Dead, Quicksilver, and The Airplane all played at the hall in Pescadero, population 200 or so....
5 bucks....on Friday 6 people showed up!! Then the word got out and on Saturday night 20 of us showed up....
Another Loma Mar story....and this is the truth...in 1965 the Dead played in my front room in our mountain cabin...The strobe light over the toilet was a big hit...A friend of mine, an high zoot local attorney and a huge Dead fan and I were having lunch in the 90s and I mentioned to him that 30 years before they had played my front room....he got very serious and leaned toward me and said...(I shit you not) "Do you have the set list?
As if I had not already developed CRS.
- http://www.setlists.net/?search=true&venue=&city=pescadero&state=&month=&day=&year=&songs=&submit=Search (Open in New Window)
... but London might have been a good second best to SF back in the day.
A few highlights...
Traffic starting again as a 3 piece after Dave Mason left playing in a local pub.
Pink Floyd early enough to still include the odd Chuck Berry encore when ai went on the bus and met a guy from the support band who had no idea where the gig was and got guested in... he was on the bus with his pet piglet on a lead.
Hendrix jamming with Cream when he and Clapton got into a little guitar dueling... swapping phrases and adding a little at each stage... eventually Clapton walked offstage and left Hendrix to complete the set
Former room-mate and Hell's Angel, managed Traffic's 1st trip to the US. Brought them by my house for party favors.
The next day we all went to Haight Street and dropped some acid and proceeded to walk down Haight to Golden Gate Park, along the way Steve stopped into a bakery and bought me a peroshka....I'd never had one before....I got about 1/2 of it down before the rush sort of killed my appetite. Into the park we went....
Capaldi gets separated and we cannot find him.....time gets to the point where they need to do the sound check at the Fillmore, still no Capaldi....he finally staggers in with some chick he met in the park and is just in time to walk out and take his place on the stage for the start of Traffic's set....I remember it as if it was yesterday....
Leo went on to be The road manager for Crosby, Stills and Nash's first tour and that is how I met those guys....
That is another story for another time...
When I started going to gigs around 67 (I was 14-15) I used to wonder who the older guys propping up the bar were.
Ten years later I realised it was me...
No but I once auditioned for The Vegtables. They had switched from jangle to Paul Butterfield emulators and I didn't cut it (
... with your description of BG, I might recount the story of Jefferson Airplane looking for a manager, Chet got up late in the morning and phoned them only to find Graham had called first thing and JA were so impressed someone got up to sort things out that they signed.
Possibly apochryphal, perhaps an urban legend, but although Helms took things to a certain point, in my opinion, it takes a certain kind of person to operate at a higher(power) level.
To be successful in any business you have (on occassions) to be decisive and to follow through and get on with it for better or worse.
Its not so much that nice guys finish last as much as its that they sit around trying to think of more reasons why they should be in the race at all.
Given the combination of slightly muddled good intentions and tons of dope, you expect decisiveness too? ;)
Not at all... unless I wanted a manager!
Its the tide of history... or evolution!
Or something.
Some things succeed and some... don't!
Certainly all three of those mentioned have either had the ability to remain still at the centre of the maelstrom or the personal gravity to attract talent to them.
The charisma is not just restricted to musicians!
But the potential dangers are also equally available.
Martin Hannett, who produced Joy Division amongst others, certainly had the potential to become a latterday Spector, at least in terms of talent, had he not fallen to the typical music biz curses.
25 after the event I do not think Atmosphere has dated (drum sound apart perhaps) and it still stands alongside anything in music, anything at all.
Talent is drawn to talent.
John Curd the tour promotor I used to work for is one such character having moved from a mod DJ to a promotor and record company owner.
The fact he never achieved (as far as I know) the probable huge financial rewards of some of the others is not the point. During the 70-80s bands were drawn to John like well I was going to say sharks to blood, but who was the shark may be open to discussion!!
Before the bean counters squeezed out the music people at Warner/Reprise these guys had a fairly good solar system spinning too.
Jerry Wexler and John H Hammond also deserve a nod for their longer although arguably less intense runs.It has been quoted here numerous times before but you just can't beat Hunter S Thompson's comment: "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
... I got on so well there!
I guess Sam Phillips would be a good name to mention... at least until he sold Elvis's contract and became a part owner of Holiday Inn...
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