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In Reply to: RE: I believe posted by villastrangiato on November 13, 2012 at 06:49:25
Hass was working in the horizontal plane. His research (as described in the reference you provided) did not concern itself with height localization, and therefore is irrelevant to this discussion.
You have tried to use research that showed how one things works to prove that another thing can't work. This is pseudo-science. You are stuck in your own dogma. I have nothing more to say to you, it would be a waste of time.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Follow Ups:
Now you're going to reinvent what Haas' experiments were about?
LOL!!
I was right b4, you truly are lost in a little bubble world of audio fantasy land. The Isolation Ward is ^ thataway.
In your earlier post, you provided a reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haas_effect
As my reply indicated, this was what I was working from. If you have a different reference that shows that Haas did more, then please provide it, as it would be interesting, and possibly relevant. In case the reference requires payment to read, then please provide brief quotations that would show the relevance of the reference to this discussion.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Edits: 11/13/12
the truly ignorant resort to insults and name calling when they can not answer questions? When asked for documentation they generally use that technique to avoid answering.....
Use headphones to check out what I have written. No sense of height and indeed the spatial presentation is located entirely between the ears, and within your head (there are a few exceptions, generally with phones with drivers located away from the ears). Play the same recording on a simple two way bookshelf, and then turn the speaker upside down: the sense of height is severely diminished (unless the speaker was deliberately designed to be played that way, generally indicating a very "hot" tweeter.
Of course YMMV
Stu
There are funny effects with speakers that involve room interaction, especially tweeters bouncing off room surfaces. However, once these have been cleaned up (through positioning and room treatment) then one can hear effects associated with the surfaces of the recording venue (on a real stereo recording only, of course). If the musical instrumentation is similar to what one is familiar with in live concerts then it becomes possible to understand certain sonic patterns in terms of reflections off of various surfaces. This appears in the time domain as reflections and in the frequency domain as comb filtering. Both of these can provide clues as the microphone patterns, the acoustic venue, etc., and any competent recording engineer would be familiar with these effects and the best ones would be able to place the microphones appropriately to make a nice recording. There is little "height" information directly on most musical instruments at a live concert since the musicians are all on a stage. Sometimes there are risers to elevate those in the back but this amounts to a "tilt" effect and in effect the musicians are still pretty much on a plane. The main acoustic effect in the vertical dimension is bounces off the floor and ceiling. Here the live concert gets a two fold benefit of height information, first from the HRTF in the vertical dimension (asymmetric ear lobes) and second from comb filter effects. There is certainly the possibility for a Pavlovian connection between these two methods of vertical information to be learned, and if so then the comb filtering reflections could get decoded as height rather than just confusing aberrations in frequency response.
Whenever I've listened to headphones, I've been bothered by the "sound in the head" situation, so I don't have much experience using them. In any event, the sound is substantially different from what one would hear in a live environment, so I would have no basis for learned effects (particular sound matched to particular physical location). Perhaps if I were to spend more time listening with phones I might learn to hear more. Of course there are also binaural recordings and these can definitely have height effects, due to HRTF effects.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
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