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In Reply to: RE: I know. posted by Pat D on October 15, 2010 at 18:10:36
And so by your own admission, you have no good evidence that those alleged "high performance cables" sound different from large heavy gauge speaker wire...
How can you find evidence when they have never been tested? How many times do you need to be told the same thing before you understand the concept? Three? Four? Never?
And that was mtrycrafts' point then and still is, I think.
His point? He claimed that there were tests that included what he dismisses as "expensive cables". He lied.
How does one know whether a cable is "high performance" or not?
Smart people know several ways. Do they achieve a low dielectric constant? Zip cord clearly does not. Do you test what countless critical listeners say sounds good? Why would you possibly want to do that?
How could one test a hypothesis which has no definite meaning?
The answer involves a very complex procedure that is likely far beyond your level of comprehension: you include them in your tests. Did you get that?
I'm done with kindergarten for today.
rw
Follow Ups:
E-stat
"His point? He claimed that there were tests that included what he dismisses as "expensive cables". He lied."
No, mtyrcrafts did not lie. Indeed, if you look in the same 2004 thread at AR, you will find Richard Greene said participated in such a DBT, so you should know what mtry said was true.
Richard Greene
"Ten feet of Radio Shack 14AWG zip cords versus ten-foot $995 Tara Labs speaker cables at DLC Design, an audio consultancy in Michigan. The test was conducted by DLC owner Dave Clark (inventor of the DUMAX dynamic driver measurement system) and Tom Nousaine. Both work full-time in the audio field and both are internationally known."
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
Mtry didn't provide that *test*. He remained unable to provide any such information. He admitted that he was unable to provide any such detail. He lied. Let's examine your example of a scientifically valid test. Here's the entirety of the scholarly test procedure, gear used and results:
"Ten feet of Radio Shack 14AWG zip cords versus ten-foot $995 Tara Labs speaker cables at DLC Design, an audio consultancy in Michigan"
That's it? Now, go back and tell us the contents of the very next post in that thread. BassNut's was 11. Read 12. Then, tell us if the question raised in that post was ever answered.
rw
No, mtry did not lie. First, what mtrycrafts said was that tests with expensive cables have been done. I'll link some results below, and I hope you aren't going to pretend you haven't seen the ABX site before.
You maintain DBTs have never been done with expensive cables, yet the refutation of your assertion was in that very thread, in Richard Greene's post.
Second, mtry never said he could not supply any references. He pointed out that he didn't need to do so, since it is up to those who claim there are audible differences to establish it. After all, those null results don't prove a negative(as if we hadn't told you this many times). It doesn't do much good to supply references around as hardly anyone either reads them or bothers to remember they have been given--do you recognize yourself?
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
You're supposed to ASSUME that the test was done with something other than Bose Accoustimass and Yorx electronics, somewhere other than a cave, that the people failed to discern differences, and that there was a test at all! Where's your faith???
The question at issue is whether tests of expensive cables have been done. They have.
Now you want to ask some other questions. Fine. Why don't you ask DLC what was done? But why you are interested in more negative results is a question, since so many think negative results mean nothing.
I'm looking for positive results. There are some, as E-stat keeps telling us, but he doesn't like them.
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"A fool and his money are soon parted." --- Thomas Tusser
Richard claims to have been present at the test he cited. You happen to believe it was a proper test and, however much I may disagree with his audio beliefs, I've always found him to be honest. But see Tony's post above (titled: Evidence?). Your beliefs and my beliefs have no place in the discussion. E-Stat doesn't share the same faith, and there's no reason he should. Richard's claim is nothing more than anecdotal evidence. I would guess that you don't see this because you share the same audio beliefs.
> I'm looking for positive results. <
Not very diligently. The best way to find positive results is to participate in some blind tests, either as a participant or as an observer. It shouldn't take many... as long as you don't insist on comparing two brands of zip cord or two brands of plastic receiver.
rw
And if it is, why? After all this time?
Can accuse you of succumbing to expectation bias, can we? :)
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