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In Reply to: Does "logics" apply to music enjoyment ? posted by cheap-Jack on January 31, 2007 at 09:13:30:
So you level matched 2Wpch (distortion not stated) against a 100Wpch by ear? neither did you bother about impedance nor gain matching? It goes without saying that it was sighted.In other words you did not satisfy any basic protocols? In otherwords, your comments have no value whatsoever.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Follow Ups:
Hi.So you listen with your music instinct or with your immpedance or level matching??
If you bank your music enjoyment on solely numbers & figures, this is a 100% sighted test - sighted on numbers. An even worse situation on sighted audition on the equipment, which is more relevant than sheer numbers.
My question to you: how good are your numbers relevent to music enjoyment? Why are you so sure the numbers you so measured are valid?
So tell me what are your "basic protocols" & how such man-made
hooks & crooks can determine how good or how bad it sound in dB or ohms?As I said, good music has already encompass whatever matchings involved. Supposing you were Hans Albert Einstein reborn todate, did I have to worry about your mathematical proficiency ???
What is your logics? Do I need to bother your relevant comments?
c-J
Well the discussion you attempt to raise in invalid here, I asked some basic questons about your protocol and your answers indicate that your comparison was useless in so far as an objective discussion is concerned. Do you prefer your tube 1wpch tube amplifier to something else? All power to you. But trying to pass off a totally uncontrolled comparison evaluation in a discussion of transistors vs. tube is pointless.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Hi.Answer my questions instead of backing off, bud. I repeat: What are the "protocols" you employed that are valid & relevant to what we find the component sounding good or not?
Would you ask the attendants in an audio shop silly questions like
level & impedance matching before you would go ahead for an audition before your picked up an audio component your were interested?If you don't acquire the basic music instinct, & bank merely on
impedance & level matching & alike so called "protocols" before you know what sounds good or not as good, may I suggest you to change your hobby. What about go fishing?Get real. Stop being a cult victim.
c-J
Man wake up, you are asking open ended questionsI asked some basic closed questions and your response provided all that I need to ascertain the validity of your original comments. .
By the way, impedance matching is very important to me cos if the impedance of various components is well matched, a lot of mystique surrounding 'synergy' becomes redundant. And the very least I expect from someone comparing a tube amp to a SS amplifier is to the difference in output impedance into account. Without those protocols in place, you do not have a valid test, at least not one that is useful in discussion such as this.
"If you don't acquire the basic music instinct, & bank merely on
impedance & level matching & alike so called "protocols"It just so happens that those components are electrical, no amount of musical instinct precludes that fact. We are discussing audio amplifiers.
"Get real. Stop being a cult victim."Trying to pass off your comparison test which lacks even the basic controls as fact. And you call me a cult victim because I pointed that fact out to you, unsurprising really...
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Hi.Thanks goodness. I DIY design-built & upgrade audio gears as much as I could, which include SS & tube phonostages, linestages, power amps, speaker systems, interconnects, power cords, AC powerline conditioners, etc etc etc etc.
Impedance "matching" is not a stranger to me.
Since you first raised the isse of impedance matching. Please give an example how you want your audio amplifers impedance "matched".
Just give me a realworld example of your work recently.I am listening, bud.
c-J
nice try,Trying to divert attention away from the original point? your comparison test is wretchedly useless, that much can be easily gathered from your comments.
A discussion on impedance matching between components, that's for another time.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Hi.This is a technical forum. If you don't know or are not ready until "another time", admit so.
Don't beat about the bush & back off with whatever excuses.
Next time don't play games with me. Thanks.
c-J
"Next time don't play games with me. Thanks."This has to be the most hilarious comments I have read from you in a while, you do a comparison test that lacks the most basic protocols, you present some evidence that tubes are superior to transistors, you are questioned about it and then try to veer into another issue completely.
Now that is a good definition of joke, you are playing games with yourself and it is called self-denial.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Hi.If you can't answer these "most basic" things where you started your argument, & can't substantiate it with a practical example how you carry out these "basic things", please don't waste time here anymore.
The fact that tube sounds different from a solidstate device is not
only impedance matching that "basic". There are other more major factors. If you don't know, ask me.I doubt you really know.
c-J
Dancing around the point by attempting to introduce a non-sequiter to the discussion, good one! Do tubes really sound different from SS, if certain criteria is satisfied? One thing is certain, your original comparison will NOT get you any closer to the answer cos you did not take any precaution to address the mitigating factors surrounding your test.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Hi.Surely tubes never sound same as a SS device, period.
If you don't know, why don't YOU admit it & ask?
So what is the "certain criteria" to be "satisfied" so that both devices would sound the same. Certainly NOT matching impedances & SPL levels.
Tell me what are they ??????
Likewise, when I ask you would be man same as woman IF "certain criteria
is satisfied"?c-J
PS: your statement is wrong is to start with.
Attempting to introduce another non-sequiter issue into the pot, eh?"Surely tubes never sound same as a SS device, period."
Is your invalid comparison is part of your evidence you cite? what a laugh. At any rate, for the sake of complementness and despite the its obviousness, it is the complete circuit that is subject to a comparison, .
"So what is the "certain criteria" to be "satisfied" so that both devices would sound the same. Certainly NOT matching impedances & SPL levels. "
You partially answered your own quesiton earlier in the thread, at any rate matching impedances and SPL levels is for the purpose of RELIABLY detecting differences, not to make both amplifiers sound the same, a level playing field so to speak. Here you are questioning the basic protocols for a valid DBT, as such there is really no point continuing, I can safely assume that your test was invalid. You compared a 2wpch tubed amplifier to a 100Wpch SS amplifier with no controls and you are jumping up and down because I questioned validity of your conclusions? Oh, the ridiculousness of it, :)
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
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