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In Reply to: RE: Best Amp for Audiophile posted by fstein on March 21, 2010 at 19:41:55
Bryston
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Bryston? I suppose you just guess what's hidden underneathe the veils, when mixing? Lol
Hi fstein
As you can see there are many good suggestions listed (Bryston, etc), however you’ve alluded to a point where price can be a concern. If this is the case, I would suggest purchasing a used pro-amp from eBay some of which can be really good deals.
I have purchased 2x Yamaha P2100 (85 to 100watts / chn) and 7x P2200 (200 to 235 watts / chn). These older amps (1976) are not true pro-types and would be better classified as semi-pro, but they definitely are very listenable with an excellent audio quality that is simply not available in current generation of amps. The smaller P2100 weighs in at 35 pound and the larger P2200 tips the scales at 45 pounds, (the handles help at lot when moving them). They do not use fans and have large side mounted heatsinks which makes them very suitable for home use.
These amps had a bad reputation in the pro-field as they were not forgiving to wiring errors or speaker faults and usually resulted in blown output transistors of which there were only 6 per channel (too few for a 200+ watt amp). Also, even though they had XLR input connectors, the unit did not have balanced inputs, which although not important for home use were essential for pro use. Another negative point was the over temperature sensors, which if triggered only lit up a LED and did nothing else (i.e. did not shut-down the affected channel). In a pro-environment you could not ask the mixer/controller to constantly watch the amps to see if there was an over-temperature LED on.
For these reasons the Yamaha amps were not preferred for pro-work BUT they are highly prized for home use, I have even seen a defective but very clean unit (no rack rash) sell for over $600 on eBay, the reason being that these amps are really easy to fix, they use mostly standard components.
A feature that almost everyone loves about the larger P2200 amps are the gorgeous large peak reading meters. This I believe was one of the very few manufactures to use a true log-calibrated fast-ballistics peak-reading meters on their equipment, so if you have power sensitive speakers this is a must-have item. Furthermore, the user manual that came with the P2200 is considered by many as one of the best tutorials available for audio amplifier installations, and is a must read for anyone working with sound. It can be gotten for free at the Yamaha manual web site (see link below).
Yamaha tried to correct the pro-issues when they designed the P2002-M a successor to the P2200 in the 1980’s that looked very similar to the P2200. It had 8 transistors per side (instead of 6), true balanced inputs, and a workable over-temperature shutdown, with white peak-reading meters (instead of black) but some people found that it was not quite as clean sounding as the original.
Another semi-pro amp suggestion would be the Crown DC-300A (avoid the DC300 model). Although not quite as listenable as the Yamahas, it was a very rugged unit with lots of reserve power that could easily drive 4 ohm loads. It also does not have balanced inputs or a fan, which was one of its failings as a pro-amp as it tended to over-heat if not cooled with add-on fans. However for home use this was not a problem.
Other amps that could be considered would be the ESS 500, the Phase Linear 700, SAE, Dynaco 400, Bose 1800 all were really powerful however many people found that these units tended to color the sound somewhat. Most had the same failing as the DC-300A listed above for pro-use however for home use the problems would not be an issue.
Hope this helps
Max Caliber
(a one-time JBL service manager)
Lots of good info in your post.
I'd only add... Some Yamahas are well-regarded. Also consider QSC which has a good reputation, and Crown. Not sure if Crest is still around, but they made some fine amps. Some pro studios use Bryston.
The Crown DC300A - not so much. Lots of negative feedback to stabilize the amp, resulting in various types of distortion. But still, it was forgiving even to a 2 ohm load. But in a nightclub, nobody cares. ;)
My 3 cents, adjusted for rising prices, er, inflation.
I would agree with Bryston. it's really midrange audiophile gear that is pretty tough, its about the one that i would consider a crossover item....
I wouldn't call Bryston inexpensive. However, I have actually heard a PA rig that used all Bryston amps; it shows up year after year for the local country fair's music stage.
People have said positive things about the Behringer A500; it's about $200 new.
generally going to forget this whole thing, I am a single ended tube guy on the side....and once you have heard with a good pair of time aligned speakers the soundstage take a huge leap forward in reality....there is no going back...
that aside , I have heard this particular Behringer and it is surprisingly good...one of the best solid state push pulls in the world I would say....
that aside if you want the best for listening and you can get some better and somewwhat more efficient speakers...say 93db/1w...
Then the current answer hands down...is Nelson Passes new Single Ended all JFET " J2 "....
it is the best solid state on the planet right now....and not too expensive...
Find a way to get to listen to it...just to hear it... put what I am saying to the test...it is worth the experiment...
Have Fun
=3db
Pro Gear is designed to run 24/7 into very demanding loads. it is in essence the Diesel Semi truck where as a high end home audio amp is designed to reproduce every detail and nuance. the are more akin to a high performance sports car. both built to do what they do very well. trying to use one in place of the other...well you get the picture.
In everything there are compromises. and Pro gear is built under a totally different set of design rules then a high end home amp. you would never try and pull a 50,000lb trailer with a Porsche nor would you try and run a lap at Nuremberg with a 18 wheeler.
So take whatever money you have and buy a good used home amp. thats my .02cents YMMV
Zc
I've yet to see a good, apt car / amplifier analogy. I suppose it doesn't help that they are not remotely parallel in their duties, and very few users even know what they do.
That would be difficult given that there is no race track in or near Nuremberg. Even rallies are frowned upon there nowadays!
There is however a very famous (well three actually) track called Nurburg Ring which is in a completely different area of Germany.
That said I have seen 18 wheelers doing laps at the old Hockenheim Ring drifting through the corners on a day Mercedes-Benz hired the track for testing.
Btw MC2 Audio MC series amps compete quite happily with say Boulder or Chord amps on every level except price.
Bryston and Perreaux are other pro amp manufacturers holding their own amongst 'high end home amps'.
IMO a better car analogy would be that pro amps are like the cars raced at the 24hrs of Le Mans while home amps are like a shop-bought Ferrari: They may keep up with the pros at first but will break down after a couple of hours flat out.
Race Trucks during the Truck Grand Prix at the Nuremberg Racetrack , Rhineland Palatinate , Germany , Europe
http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=2198615
If it's in Nuremburg it is called Norisring and is in Bavaria.
The Nurburgring is in Rhineland Palatinate.
Whoever put that caption up was simply wrong.
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