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In Reply to: RE: it is indeed a pity that power filtering is overlooked by many inmates posted by Douwe01nl on December 02, 2011 at 08:24:37
Hi Douwe,
Thank you for your feedback.
When reading your reply, first thing that sprang too mind was: ‘it is very strange that Douwe’s computer needs UHF polluted DC too sound good’.
Ferrites can effectively provide high resistance (‘filter’) for UHF from approx 80 mHz too 300 Mhz (when applied correctly and depending on type off ferrite material used).
Have you any idea why this UHF pollution on the DC power supply lines, makes your computer sound better ?
“iirc this is a known issue of ferrites”
Are you really sure about that? I also read this at regular intervals. But I feel this is a misconception from the analogue audio domain which now (unfortunately) also is projected onto the digital audio domain.
Although I did not do/tried it myself, I can easily understand in terms of extra ‘power supply noise suppression’ and extra ‘decoupling’ how bypassing all caps on the mobo will boost SQ.
But I lack the ‘micro’ soldering skills too do this.
I also do believe that powering memory separately will boost SQ.
But is this because memory needs cleaner power which somehow results in better sound quality?
Or is it because in the process Jack is also removing a noise source?
In this case I find it hard too differentiate between ‘cause’, and ‘effect’ (and possibly also ‘symptoms’).
Why do you choose for an atom based setup?
I haven’ compared atom based mobo’s with the latest 1155 chipset mobo’s myself.
But I feel it is definitely worth to try Jackwongs suggestion using a 1155 based mobo with a 1155 socket Celeron dual core. Jackwong reported that this computer setup sounded best in his system.
I think (not sure yet) I will try it myself in a few weeks.
Half a year ago I also changed too using my Gigabyte G41M based cMP setup headless.
This allowed me too get rid of using USB.
While on the same time giving a lot of convenience controlling the cMP setup through my android tablet and smartphone (through using VNC)
Using the VGA output too my Sony KDL-37/W4000 TV has absolutely no impact on SQ.
Also using LAN has absolutely no impact on SQ.
But using USB does have a negative impact on SQ.
This can easily be heard in my setup.
Reducing the polling USB frequency (as found by Ryelands) does give some SQ improvement.
But disabling USB all together in BIOS and XP gives an even greater SQ improvement.
And going headless through using an android tablet is sooo convenient !!
I would not put much effort in XP slimming.
I see no ration behind it.
I consider it as shooting in the dark, hoping you hit something.
And surely you hit something because the results are stunning as reported by other inmates with good equipment and ears.
But one also does totally cripple the cMP machine.
There has too be a more clever way.
I feel a much better approach could be:
1. check with process explorer which files and processes are being used while running cmp + cPlay.
2. Than compare this list it with the list of files Mihaylov’s is running.
Mihaylov’s file list see: http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/9/99505.html
3. Subtract: 1. (process explorer file list) minus 2. (Mihaylov’s file list) = file deletion list.
I will try this somewhere coming weeks.
If you ever manage to find out why your setup needs UHF polluted DC too sound good, let us know.
It’s very intriguing, why it does need it.
Mark
fully optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Follow Ups:
Hi Mark, thanks for your post
On the ferrites
I don't know why too much ferrite chokes dynamics, i'm not audio engineer. So i just try and listen, keeping what works.
As you know i use sla-batteries and inverters (to 220v). For the analogue parts i use sinus-inverters; for the digital parts (cmp-machine) block-inverters sound much better! Less filtering, more open sound. Maybe this is an explanation, i really don't know.
I'm very curious about your UHF-shunt: what did it bring you and where did you put it?
On the Atom
- cpu frequency matters. In my former and current machines (Asus-socket A and Intel-1156) cpu-frequency makes a lot of difference. This particular atom-board (asrock ad525pv3) can go as low as 900MHz. Besides that has a very detailed bios (unlike most atoms) and tweakable memory-settings.
- This atom board has no unneeded chips and unneeded functions
- i don'n need 24/192; 16/88 is ok. atom can do this.
- the board is very simple (elegant?). i think i can tweak cpu-psu (lowdrops in stead of 78xx). Besides that: only one powerphase, so no/less switching (i suppose) between phases.
- Ryelands has very good experience with atom
- low power, so easier to battery-psu
- last but not least: learning is as important as sq to me. i just want to try and hear. If it is not good, i'll change to 1155. As jackwong is working on GA-H55M-USB3 (my current board) we have some same reference.
I'll report the results when ready.
I'm looking forward to going headless CMP, my current dualboot setup alows me to go headless in Windows 7. Very convenient!!
What about safety: isn't it very vulnerable when connected to the www? or do you have a closed network with dedicated nas and router? (i'm sorry, networking is not my strongest field)
you should try capping the mobo, just try out on an old mobo. I'm not very experienced, it's not that difficult. Just take time and use tape to hold the caps on the mobo before (and while) soldering. This is another argument for atom: only 20-25 caps to bypass.
You are right about usb: i never used it because of negative impact on sq.
about slimming XP: lets just see what it brings. For me its ok if it gets smaller than 1GB: i ordered a 1gb SATA SSD DOM (disk on module). Bot wow, the 36 mb of Rickmcinnis is very intriguing. I like non-rational solutions, but your approach is very interesting. Please report the results!
Oh, about the UHF: i think my setup and psu is so clean that, in order to sound natural, it just begs for a little pollution ;))
Douwe
Douwe
Thankx for your response. I enjoy the communication.
I’m also in computeraudio for learning combined with hobby.
I'm not sure what you mean with: UHF-shunt.
I just use ferrite clamp-on beads (combined with caps to create a 2nd order filter). I don't think that is the same as 'shunting'
Here I lack the knowledge of an EE or any other indebt knowledge of electronics too understand what you extacly mean.
I’m agricultural engineer. (I now can hear you laughing, but in the Netherlands this is a real degree. :-) )
“ Oh, about the UHF: i think my setup and psu is so clean that, in order to sound natural, it just begs for a little pollution ;)) “
Well, no kidding, I already thought of some kind of ‘dither’ effect.
About your atom mobo choice.
I now understand your choice for it.
I also don’t care for re- or upsampling or hig res.
I even don’t play FLAC files.
I convert FLAC files too WAV-files
I use a 2 Tb NAS, so why bother about storage space.
It is also my experience that running at low speeds indeed has some positive effect on SQ
But…. Just for that, you can still go with a Gigabyte MoBo
I run mine at 600 mhz. No kidding. See picture.
So on a GA-H55M-USB3 you should be able too go as low.
Although I have never used one, I agree the Atom boards appear to be nice mobo’s for audio PC or even HTPC’s
About going headless.
I guess I have a standard home LAN setup
WWW <-> modem/router <-> LAN 1 Gbps Swith <-> cMP PC
The routing from my android Tablet too my headless cMP is:
Android Tablet <-> LAN WiFi Acces Point <-> 1 Gbps Swith <-> cMP PC
There is also a firewall in my modem/router (as in any modem/router nowadays)
So I don’t care about security issues and safety on my cMP computer.
On my cMP is not any information that has any value too others.
On my small Kingstone 16 Gb SSD there is only an XP instalment optimized for music.
So I really don’t care about safety issues on my cMP
So if you have a WiFi Acces Point on your home LAN,
Just don’t care about safety and do try an android Tablet or smartphone as a wireless remote.
Mark
fully optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Hi Mark, thanks for reassuring about LAN-safety, i enjoy the conversation too!
I found a picture of your UHF-shunt (or maybe it was HF-shunt) on your picassa-page, which i cannot find now. You didn't post on it, only the picture about shunting HF to earth or so. And of course, as an agricultural engineer, you know everything about earth and grounding and stuff, so i wondered...
600MHz is great! H55M-bios cannot go below 900 MHz; i chose it for the quiet cpu-psu (ic's in stead of rattling 78xx). Downside is it's crowded with unneeded chips: dvi, hdmi, usb-3, ide, even Floppy-slot. Wouldnot recommend it.
I will let you know when i finished atom-set, maybe you can have a listen when you're in amsterdam.
cheers!
Douwe
An agricultural engineer is never laughable. I myself am a trained mechanical engineer trying to become an electrical/computer technician. At any rate you are right learning new stuff is half the fun. When I was working I tended to spend way too much on audio. Now that I am retired I see that very little expenditure (in most cases no expenditure) which can cause way bigger sq changes.
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