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In Reply to: RE: Always good to see your name on the Forum! posted by jackwong96 on November 14, 2011 at 10:37:21
I had tried unsuccessfully to use the new chips (1155) sockets. I tried three boards, though not the ones you have suggested, with not good results.
I have the CPU so I would like to give it a try.
Looks like the BIOS on the seventy dollars board is not as detailed as my current board but undoubtedly you have not found that to be a problem.
I love those power consumptions numbers you are getting!
I have hesitated installing a fully linear P24 supply due to fear that the five volts rail will overwhelm the BELLESON reg I want to use. That is no longer a problem with your new set-up.
Maybe removing unneeded components on the H55 board will give me a little more confidence that I am not stressing the regulator.
Would you mind letting us know how "good" a butane soldering iron you use for the chip removal? There is much out there in all price ranges. Would rather spend a little extra (if needed) than ruin the MB> Also, on the heat gun - just a regular hear gun? Seems like one with a tightly focused nozzle would be best but this is something I have never tried before.
Good thing I kept all of those "useless" old MB's. I will practice before trying it on my MAIN board!
Very exciting!
Follow Ups:
Removing unneeded components on the H55 board will reduce small amount of current from the 3.3V and 12V rails, but not the 5V one. If your BELLESON reg. is capable of delivering more than 2.5A(need some reserve during boot up), I think it will power the 5V.I use ordinary tools, a Taiwan made butane soldering iron and cheap hot air gun of unknown origin(China?). Quality and price of these tools are not major issues as long as they can delivery sufficient heat, and most of them do unless they are too small in size or power. If you really want to try, I suggest you buy cheaper ones if you will not using them frequently.
I recommend a heat gun with a regular nozzle. Focused ones will require good attention or you might end up heating up other components. Too hot at a certain spot will cause small components to float or fell off too! You should focus on desoldering the chip with the gas iron. The heat gun is for background heating and support, I would say providing 65 to 70% of heat energy. If it is not used in support of a gas iron, heat will be draw away by the board and you can near remove a single chip.
If you're not an electronic hobbyist, you should try removing components from unused boards a dozen of times or more, until you really feel confident.
Your board need more heating up than regular ones because of the 1 Oz copper therein. With an unused board, you should try heating up the back of the board with heat gun, time it, until small resistors can be removed by a paper strip. This is a negative test to determine the maximum timing you can heat up the board without the small components falling off and you should avoid such prolonged heating.
When you are ready,try remove the sound chip first easy one as its back is not soldered to the board (the one at the corner) and then the network chip (directly above the word "ATI", more heat required as the back is soldered). Most difficult ones would be the two video chips - not sufficient space. I suggest you call me then.
Good luck!
Edits: 11/15/11
Must say I am a littel disappointed about not getting the benefit of lowering the 5 volts rail's current requirement. Oh, well ... you did say there was the more important benefit of better sound quality.
I am a relatively experienced hobbyist so I think, with your instruction, I can do this without making too much of a mess. I sincerely appreciate your recommendations and guidance.
I will post when I have actually done it!
I am assuming the chips to remove are obvious? I will extrapolate from your pictures of the H55 variant from a year ago.
Thanks very much,
but risky!Elimination of video interference makes a difference, I've tested it thoroughly on several boards.
Reduction in current consumption will ease the power supply, improvement would largely depend on the ability of PS.
If you want to test how it sound like when the video chips are removed, read the link and implement the "display off".
I've tried the "display off" with the new S2V board where the VGA to DVI converter was removed and it made a difference. However, you can achieve much better improvement with the 2 video chips removed.
Edits: 11/16/11
You have given me an inexpensive way to get into the new intel hw. Thanks.
I still am interested ih hearing the full story of the .01 ohm resistor.
Try this: connect a 0.01 ohm resistor to the tweeters of your speakers and try to determine which setting is better. I bet they sound differently but they are no better than the other.OK. Try it if you have time or read the below story.
I’ll try to cut it short.Many years ago whilst in the course of seeking musical fidelity, I met a guy who built amps and speakers for living. He looked like ET as he has got a big head and skinny body. Here and after I called him X. X was a graduate from an electronic institution who has more than ten years of experience in the field of HiFi. He was willing to share his knowledge with me. At that time, I had some knowledge on audio DIY and refrained from buying commercial audio gears, because I could built something good with much less cost. I also built speakers and that‘s what X interested me.
He told me how to accurately adjust the tweeter/mid-range & tweeter level of a pair of speakers so that they would sound really good. The bass unit was connected directly whilst the tweeter level attenuated using resistor ladder network. That sound usual to me, what surprised me was that he was tuning the tweeter level using some 0.01 ohm resistors(and some others bigger in value) in a passive two way speaker system.
He explained that there was a perfect matching point when the tweeters were attenuated to reach the exact same level as the woofer, and that sweet spot could be missed so easily. He tuned the resistance of the network up and down (with solder) and listened to the changes. I wasn’t sure whether he was exaggerating or trying to fool me, but everything he told me was useful, true and confirmed in textbook. I however had no opportunity to witness the successful tuning and audition the sonic results.
I was not sure about X’s 0.01 ohm setting methodology. And I told myself should that be true then all commercial speakers would be inaccurate in attenuation setting and thus far from good sounding, because they all used 5-10% tolerance resistors. No, I told myself that can’t be the case.
However, X’s methodology kept popping up as I was not satisfied with the speakers I built. About 2 years later, I decided to give it a try when setting a pair of 2-way speakers.
At first, I had no success at all despite my attempts for two months. At some points sub-sonic emerged and I remembered X had told me that it was near but not close to the spot. I went on varying the value of the resistor network using a chain of 0.0.1 and 0.03 ohm resistors(of course there were others with bigger values), moving up and down and at the same time maintaining an overall resistance of 8 ohm. It was annoying because each and every time I had to solder both legs of the ladder, and for both speakers.
My ears were fatigue after listening for 2 or more hours almost everyday for more than two month, because I need to compare the sonic difference each and every time I changed the values. Nevertheless, faith had driven me to keep on trying despite so many unsuccessful attempts.
I attempted further for almost three months, and eventually I hit the spot. It was so distinguishably good at that exact spot that moving 0.01 ohm upward or downward would totally ruin the balance. It’s just that sweet spot and nowhere else. And I had to agree with X.
I demonstrated to some audio friends the difference between the exact tuning spot and off 0.01 ohm or further, all of them could tell where the right point was. The differences were so significant that friends who had no interest in HiFi could judge.
During the rest of DIY life, I attested X’s speaking setting methodology on five more occasions when building speakers for myself and friends. Once I spent more than one years tuning a pair of 12" 3-way Dynaudio speakers. That was really difficult because the mid and tweeter had to be matched first and then bundled to move up and down the resistor network. Matching the mid and high alone was not easy when they were nowhere match to others in level and there were a lot of resistor soldering works(4 sets)to do. The last attempt was done about three years ago with a pair of Morel 6” 2-way speakers. The owner auditioned the changes in SQ (and unsuccessful attempts) during the two month tuning period, and he finally got a pair of sweet sounding speakers.
One interesting thing about this setting method is that you can’t possibly use other standard value resistors in place of the original chain of resistor and in order to maintain accuracy the connecting wires of the tweeter will also have to moved intact into the cabinet.
I’m not expecting anyone to believe in what I said. I myself didn't believe it either when first heard about it. It is just my experience.
Edits: 11/17/11 11/17/11
I wonder if I have the patience to do this ... but i have no doubt that is absolutely true.
What order of crossover were you tuning? One could see the higher the order the more importance this tuning would have. My guess is that the first order would be less critical but would still need a critical balance for best performance.
All is compromised with our humble hobby - with this critical tuning requiring all of those resistors and requisite solder joints there is a concern that something ELSE is lost. Different ears have different sensitivities; we can't have it all ...
I am now thinking: how to use this method?
Thanks,
Not only patience. In order to succeed, apart from basic knowledge you will also need a keen interest in DIY and most importantly faith.
I used a mixed combination from 1st order to 3rd order in different projects.
".....My guess is that the first order would be less critical but would still need a critical balance for best performance."
The latter half is right. My experience was that the tuning was irrespective of whatever order/combination of crossover network used, the order determine the steepness of the slope at crossover points, but it has nothing to do with leveling the speaker units. They all need critical balance.
".....tuning requiring all of those resistors and requisite solder joints there is a concern that something ELSE is lost."
I think I gained everything I wanted to hear. Whether the solder joints and resistors will cause a lost in sonic quality, you can easily determine that by replacing any resistor in your audio gear (which is in the signal path) by ten resistors of one tenth the value.
The way I see it, music we hear has in fact gone through many resistors, capacitor and transistors/tubes, they are present in the circuit as they are required to do a job. I do not see more resistors a devil. Good soldering skills and use of quality components will ensure good sound.
If you're interested. I can dig out my stuff.
there is no question it is a miracle that what we hear can sound as good as it does when you consider what it has gone through to get to us.
I think there is a ready audience here to hear anything you have to offer Mr. Wong. You are an inspirational tickerer and experimenter (my favorite kind of person) and your work is of forward thinking.
So, the answer is, PLEASE -
We used to have a tv commercial a few years ago about a certain brokerage house that traded securities. The commercial went something like '...when E F Hutton speaks everyone listens...' and here in AA Pc audio when Jack Wong speaks everyone listens ... and tries to learn. At least I do.
Rick and Theob, I do hope the skills will not be forgotten and be useful to someone who needs to diying speakers. I'll dig out my hardware(I kept 30 years of electronic waste material and reuse them as necessary) and refresh myself on the procedure. Need to do some calculation, make a simple set up for demonstration and photo taking. Wait one week for the necessary works to be done, and in the meantime I am still playing around with the new H61 MBs.
Edits: 11/22/11
We will wait patiently.
I am in the midst of trying to find good balance between the drivers of my system. I am using one of Dave Slagle's autoformers for attenuation but can see no reason I cannot do fine tuning after that with your method to find the critical balance.
Thanks, again!
Thank you very much ...very interesting...as always.
You had posted this quite a while ago:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/7/75553.html
When you did I thought you were WAY out there but now with the passage of time I am ready to give it a try.
Would you by chance have any other pictures or would be willing to offer more specifics for those who are not quite sure what we are seeing?
This may be quite inelegant but on an old board I found one can start the process by cutting the fingers off of the large IC's. The ones with the attachment to the ground plane will require HEAT to remove but this can eliminate some heating of the board. Just enough to clean off the remainder. No one is going to reuse the chips!
it is a different board!
Any chance of being able to tell what to do with the H55m-ud2h?
Hope I am not becoming a pest!
Thanks,
You are more than welcome to ask for my opinion. That's what this forum is meant for.
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