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In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by cics on December 30, 2007 at 05:42:01
Hi cics,
Your cPlay/cMP combo is very exciting. I have spent hours for several nights at browsing it and, of course, I'm very tempted to give it a go.
But first I have a few questions starting with the most important one: how should I post my questions? I've found that it's very difficult to go through the forum as nearly all the thread are titled 'RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player' which doesn't give anyo clue on what it is about. As I've got questions which might also be of some interest to others should I create as many new threads as topics?
Thanks and 'Bravo'
Golo
Follow Ups:
cPlay/cMP:
- 24bit/32bit?
cPlay specs: Media Format.........................Stereo only
WAV (16, 24, 32 PCM; 32 float)
FLAC (16, 24, 32 PCM)
cMP: Ensure bit-perfect delivery of precision-upsampled (24/192) data via a soundcard to an external DAC with no compromise in jitter performance.
Therefore what can the cPlay/cMP combo play 24 or 32-bit audio files?
As a commercial audio CDs/files listener it doesn’t bother me as, to my knowledge, no 32-bit audio files are available on the market (for now). But as a recording engineer who processes his audio files at 32-bit it would be a plus to be able to listen to them at their native resolution ie 32-bit.
On top of it nowadays are available several new 32-bit DACs.
- Digital volume: Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). What that’s mean within a 32-bit computer?
are we still in the ‘-6dB attenuation equals a 1-bit loss’ scheme?
- RAM: the lowest (256Mb) the better BUT 4Gb the better for 24/192 playback!!!
But if everything is being upsampled to 24/192 what does it mean?
- ‘plug-in’ is processed AFTER resampling. Does it mean that DRC correction filters are to be in 24/192?
Softwares:
- I intend to use DRC > use of the VST plug-in at 24 or 32-bit?
- I intend to use a DVD optical drive to be able to quickly listen to whoever’s calling in with CDs/DVDs. Might I be able to listen to a CD ‘live’ thru the cPlay/cMP?
- I intend to use DC7 to capture vinyl into computer, process the RIAA correction in the computer domain and then play it thru cPlay/cMP; is it possible?
- for all of the above can’t the processes being implemented BEFORE resampling?
Hardware:
- is there any advantages in using ‘fan-less’ internal PSUs or ‘fan-less’ external PSUs instead of the recommended ones, which are ‘fan-with’ and internal PSUs?
- a lot is said about powering the soundcard on its own. But mine is a ESI Juli@ and, to my knowledge, is powered from the mobo with no other option. How to do it?
Hi Golo and welcome.
I'll try to answer what I can for you, and hopefully some one will chime in where I misstep.
Therefore what can the cPlay/cMP combo play 24 or 32-bit audio files?
Both shouldnt be a problem. And IIRC cplay needs a card that supports 32 bit. I think it pads everything to 32bit. Do a search on the xonar card and the issues with cplay as the xonar only supports 24 bit.
- Digital volume: Offers high quality 64 bit double precision digital volume control (in 0.5db steps). What that’s mean within a 32-bit computer?
are we still in the ‘-6dB attenuation equals a 1-bit loss’ scheme?
Well since cmp2 is predicated on a 32 bit xp, it means it will work :). I think the vc is why things are padded to 32bit. Kind of like Wadia does with their volume control where one throws away bits that dont matter. Anyhow cics had a post on the volume control and if you search for posts from him then it might explain it. FWIW I DO use the vc and run from the computer to amps. The vc is pretty transparent IME.
RAM: the lowest (256Mb) the better BUT 4Gb the better for 24/192 playback!!!
But if everything is being upsampled to 24/192 what does it mean?
I think that is an old line. This project has evolved and at one time the WHOLE song was read into memory in one chunk, so 24/192 FILES not 16/44 realtime upsampled needed that memory. Though now things are different and files are read in chunks. 1gb is fine and probably the lowest you can find anyhow.
- ‘plug-in’ is processed AFTER resampling. Does it mean that DRC correction filters are to be in 24/192?
I think so. Playmate is an inmate who has a ton of experience with room correction and maybe he can correct me if I am off. But you dont HAVE to upsample at all and if your vst is limited to something like 24/96 then just do that. One thing that isnt in the docs AFAIK that is tricky is that cplay will ALWAYS sample if the frequency is different than file. For instance you set cplay to sample to 96k. If the file is 96k then no resampling is done. But if it is 44 or say 176, then it up or down samples to 96k. The latest version will show this in the top left so you know.
- I intend to use DRC > use of the VST plug-in at 24 or 32-bit?
Not a problem.
- I intend to use a DVD optical drive to be able to quickly listen to whoever’s calling in with CDs/DVDs. Might I be able to listen to a CD ‘live’ thru the cPlay/cMP?
Problem. Cplay only plays .wav and flac. You might know this but the .wav files are hidden on a cd and referenced by .cda files which cplay wont play...and you are missing the whole point. The cd drive mucks up the sound just by being installed, and the benefits of cmp2 are lost playing from a disk anyhow.
- I intend to use DC7 to capture vinyl into computer, process the RIAA correction in the computer domain and then play it thru cPlay/cMP; is it possible?
Not sure what DC 7 is. It might work though. See a proper cmp2 box will have the windows audio service stopped and some programs just dont tolerate that. you may be able to get it to work by starting some services. Or you might want to have a normal windows partition so you can use dc7 and then switch to cmp2. Though try xp mode and see what happens.
- for all of the above can’t the processes being implemented BEFORE resampling?
Not quite certain but you dont HAVE to resample at all.
- is there any advantages in using ‘fan-less’ internal PSUs or ‘fan-less’ external PSUs instead of the recommended ones, which are ‘fan-with’ and internal PSUs?
The advance section talks about REMOVING those fans once everything is underclocked and undervolted and stable. There is no problem running fanwith psus without their fans in this build using the recommended hardware. Though my last build I did buy a seasonic fanless psu that I love, especially because you can remove unneeded cables.
- a lot is said about powering the soundcard on its own. But mine is a ESI Juli@ and, to my knowledge, is powered from the mobo with no other option. How to do it?
I run a Lynx card which it seems IS problematic to power separately. But the Juli@ is different. Look in the advanced section #7 for the Juli@ and #3 for the psu question above in the following link:
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Thanks Dawnrazor,
It took me 2 full reading of your post to 'digest' the info. I'm still struggling with the 'expert' jargon. Could you translate in layman language what the following means:
- 'IIRC' as in "And IIRC cplay needs a card that supports 32 bit."
- 'to pad' as in "I think it pads everything to 32bit"
- 'FWIW' as in "FWIW I DO use the vc and run from the computer to amps"
- I assume that 'vc' stands for 'volume control'?
Cplay only plays .wav and flac. Does it mean that Cplay only plays already stored audio files either in .wav and flac? Therefore CD live playback has to be done outside cmp2 as cmp2 doesn't read .cda files. Correct?
But let's say that I'm working on a piece of music on Adobe Audition which works at 32-bit with either .wav or flac files can I output the current file through Cmp?
Same with DC7 (http://www.diamondcut.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1), can I output the current file through Cmp?
The alternative PSU for the sound card looks far too complex for my skills.
I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this upgrade unless I can find someone in Australia who can do it for me.
Thanks again Dawnrazor for your willingness to help
Golo
Hi Golo,
It took me 2 full reading of your post to 'digest' the info. I'm still struggling with the 'expert' jargon. Could you translate in layman language what the following means:
LOL. :) Sorry for the jargon. Though most of the questions are not about jargon just lazy speech. Sorry for that.
- 'IIRC' as in "And IIRC cplay needs a card that supports 32 bit."
IIRC= If I recall correctly
- 'to pad' as in "I think it pads everything to 32bit"
Whatever the bit rate you feed it, cplay adds extra bits and it outputs 32bit. Well at least that is what the specs say and there have been problems with cards or drivers that dont support 32 bit.
I THINK it is similar to what wadia does in a general sense:
http://www.wadia.com/technology/technicalpapers/Digital_Volume_Control_2.pdf
'FWIW' as in "FWIW I DO use the vc and run from the computer to amps"
FWIW= For what it's worth. Yes, vc is Volume Control.
Cplay only plays .wav and flac. Does it mean that Cplay only plays already stored audio files either in .wav and flac? Therefore CD live playback has to be done outside cmp2 as cmp2 doesn't read .cda files. Correct?
But let's say that I'm working on a piece of music on Adobe Audition which works at 32-bit with either .wav or flac files can I output the current file through Cmp?
Correct in that cplay will not read from disk. YOu have to rip that disk and then it will read the resultant .wav or flac files.
If you have that file from audition saved then yes it should read it no problem if it is flac or .wav.
Same with DC7 (http://www.diamondcut.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1), can I output the current file through Cmp?
If by "output", you mean save it to disk and have cplay read it, then YES provided the program works without the windows audio service. I would test that and if it needs the windows audio service then just keep that running. It is possible to do most of the operating system tweeks but not have to do them all!
The alternative PSU for the sound card looks far too complex for my skills.
I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this upgrade unless I can find someone in Australia who can do it for me.
Yeah, same here! Do what you are comfortable with and no more. I certainly am using store bought psus, and will be doing the advanced one where the granite psu is replaced with an additional psu that will power the cpu too.
Thanks again Dawnrazor for your willingness to help
Golo. I dont have a choice! It is part of the cmp2 license to help :) Though if you compress the dynamic range of ANY of the files you create I will come and hunt you down!!!!! :) Why studios and artist think everything has to be LOUD is amazing to me.
As an aside here is a response I got from a band I complained to:
Unfortunately I can't offer you any additional choices as far as the mastering is concerned. We went through a number of different options when we had it done, and chose the balance between loud and dynamic that made sense to us.
Here is the wave form I was complaining about...see any dynamics in there??
Also cmp2 has a cmp mode and an xp mode. You will probably be best off doing your audition stuff in xp mode and then switch to cmp mode when you want to listen. In xp mode you get a desktop and it functions like a normal though minimal computer as many services are stopped. In cmp mode there is no desktop, just a playback gui. Or you could use the EXPLORE option in cmp. It will make sense when get the programs installed.
And by cmp2, I mean cmp+ cplay.
D
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Thanks Dawnrazor,
Here is a link to the last CD I've produced http://www.siobhanowen.com/album_lilium.htm
Hope you'll be happy with the dynamics. Look at the 'picture' of the title track Lilium.
But of course I don't usually produce heavy metal!
Wow Golo,
That looks great! I wish the groups I dig would get a clue!
I think though that even the Heavy metal fans have had enough of this stuff based on the reaction to Metalicas latest.
Good luck on your cmp2 box!
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Just one little correction -
Asus Xonar latest drivers do work with cPlay.
Hi Bibo01,
Thanks for the correction. Good for asus. That seems like a great card.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
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