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In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by hfavandepas on November 18, 2009 at 06:55:44
Thanks for sharing those useful measures.
PC running in cMP optimized mode:
-> 12 Volt
BIOS starts system: 0,08
XP booting: 0,08
System running: 0,08
Playing music: 0,08
-> 5 Volt
BIOS starts system: 2,90 (peak: 3,50)
XP booting: 2,96 (peak: 3,55)
System running: 3,06 (peak: 3,09)
Playing music: 3,13 (peak: 3,14)
-> 3,3 Volt
BIOS starts system: 0,27
XP booting: 0,27
System running: 0,27
Playing music: 0,27
5V line@music would be 2.74 (3.13-0.14-0.25).
Power consumption on P24 would then be 15.6 watts (Robert's yields a lower 13.8 watts).
Have you looked at measures when changing RAM timings, e.g. using 3-2-2-5/6 with 256MB RAM? Would be interesting.
Follow Ups:
Hi Cics,Too eliminated possible PSU setup and connection errors, I re-reconnected the Earth Watts 430 ATX PSU to both the P4 and the P24. So the Earth Watts is the only PSU that is powering everything (as in an of the shelf standard PC situation) while the measurements where done.
* System
MoBo: GA - G31M - E S2L, Processor: 7300, soundcard: Lynx AES16 pci (Synchro lock disabled)
* settings:
- Software, kernel, registry, service, graphics, etc, ect and BIOS, as per cMP recommendations.
- MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.) settings:
core speed: 840 Mhz, Mulitiplier: x 6,0: Bus speed: 140 MHz, FSB: 560 Mhz
- cMP / cPlay 32: output: 96K, Buffer: tinny, SCR 145 db, lynx ASIO buffer: 32
- graphics: 8 bit (600 x 800)
- RAM: 512 MB HyperX RAMI turned my system inside out, but I couldn’t find anything other than a few hidden EMU devices that where in ‘the hidden section’ in the Device Manager. With these settings the lowest possible current on the P24 5 Volt rail in my setup, when XP home is at rest = 2, 79 Amps. (So still not close to Bertels 2,47 Amps). I couldn’t re-run ‘autoruns.exe’ because this doesn’t work when ‘min logon’ finally is installed.
-> Results current measurements on the 5 volt rail on the P24 (in Amps)
* 512 MB RAM HyperX
- Timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-7
XP at rest: 2,80
Playing music: 2,87/88- Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-3-3-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5.
XP at rest: 2,79
Playing music: 2,87- Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-2-2-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5 (!!!).
XP at rest: 2,79
Playing music: 2,87
* 2 x 512 MB RAM HyperX (interleaved mode)
- Timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-7
XP at rest: 2,97
Playing music: 3,05- Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-3-3-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5.
XP at rest: 2,98
Playing music: 3,06/05- Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-2-2-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5 (!!!).
XP at rest: 2,97
Playing music: 3,05/06
* 1GB RAM HyperX
- Timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-7
XP at rest: 2,85
Playing music: 2,93- Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-3-3-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5.
XP at rest: 2,85
Playing music: 2,93- Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-2-2-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5 (!!!).
XP at rest: 2,86/85
Playing music: 2,93* what timings can be achieved with ‘auto’-setting in BIOS.
When using the Earth Watts PSU it is not possible to boot at any lower busspeed than 140 mHz. But when using a linear PSU on the P4 and on the picoPSU-150-XT at the P24, then it is possible to (cold) boot at a busspeed of 130 MHz and warm boot at a busspeed of 125 Mhz.With bus speeds at 130 Mhz or 125 Mhz and timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ than reports: 3-3-3-6. With BIOS timings set to ‘auto’ is was not possible to reach 3-3-3-5.
* difference between timings set ‘manually’ and readings in CPUZ.
When timings were manually set to 3-2-2-5 in BIOS, CPUZ still reports 3-3-3-5. I have no explanation for this. When again checking the BIOS setup screen: 3-2-2-5 was still activated.
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Edits: 11/19/09
Mark,
impressive measurements, I appriciate that!
Now I have had to make the same expperience - when setting 3-3-3-5 on 256 ValueRam, CPU-Z reported 3-3-3-9 always...
2x512MB HyperX set to 3-3-3-5 results in 2.06A? an impressive value - unfortunately it's interleaved and with two banks creating electrical activity and interference... Well your still not there, your system is circling around 2.9A. What do you have as devoltage values?
Wow, you were able to boot up at 130 and even 125 MHz??? I've got to try that and play with that a bit, that's impressive!
Best,
Robert
Thankx for your response. unfortunately it’s a typo. 2,06/05 must be: 3,06/05.
Yes my system is still circling around 2,9 amps on the 5 volt rail at the P24 connector
I went to great lengths in controlling and checking if everything and all value’s were set like the recommendations as described in http://cplay.sourceforge.net/. FSB de-voltage is at – 0,15 V (as recommended).
Since I use linear PSU’s to power the picoPSU-150-XT at the P24 and the P4, I discovered that it’s possible to cold boot at 130 Mhz busspeed and warm boot at 125 Mhz busspeed. However 130 Mhz is to slow for upsampling. Booting at 125 MHz into a normal XP installation is impossible. You than will crash into a BSOD. At 125 MHZ you can only boot into an XP installation that is 100% optimized as per cMP recommendations.
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Thanks Mark.
Using a single RAM module with smallest capacity offers lowest power consumption. Faster timings for 512RAM have ~5mA impact (on the lower consumption side: 2,87/88 vs 2.87 continuous). I certainly wasn't expecting this and would've been happy to go with same current. From a theoretical viewpoint, faster timings without any penalties, could potentially lower jitter. This is how I see it: if data streamed to soundcard happens slightly faster then we have less interference to its XO. I'll do some tests at 3-2-2-5/6 (I prefer keeping settings for a few days at a time). Big assumption here is both 12V and 3.3V lines remain unchanged - did you confirm this?
Reason for your higher 5V consumption over Robert's is the Lynx. It's more complicated, uses different chips and offers more channels than Juli@.
Hi Cics,
Thank you for your feedback.
2,87/88 versus 2,87.
Is it really relevant with the multimeter I used? It is not a professional one.
It's a Velleman multimeter DVM68 of 30 euro's for home/hobby use.
I don't know anything about it's stability, hysteresis and bias.
About accuracy the manual reports: basic DC current accuracy: ±1.2% (±2.0% for 10A range)
I wil re-do the measurements with 512 RAM HyperX at different timings again, but than also measure the current on the 12V and 3,3 V.
For what it’s worth:
Yesterday for measurement reason’s, I powered the cMP PC setup only with the Earth Watts 430 ATX PSU. It struck me somewhat that the sound quality wasn’t that much less, than I had expected it to be, from what I could remember when using the Juli@ with different PSU types. It sounded somewhat ‘digital’ again: ‘grainy’, ‘sandy’ and ‘the digital highs’ where back. But still, I’m under the impression that the Juli@ is more sensitive for swapping from an ATX PSU to a linear PSU, than the Lynx AES16 is.
I can’t check this back anymore because I sold my Juli@ one month a go. But from what I can remember: the positive effect on sound quality when using a linear PSU with the juli@ appears to be bigger, than when using the Lynx AES16. Or said the other way round: the Lynx AES16 seems less sensitive for type of PSU used.
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Earthwatts: You would get more improvement if using main ATX for P24 only. Your other ATX would power P4.
On 5V measurements, we can conclude that RAM timings does not adversely affect power consumption (no more than 35mA).
Do I understand correctly that 3 2 2 5/6 are feasible and possibly sonically desirable with the stock cmp^2 setup?
Hi Theo,
Yes in my setup is possible to manually set 3-2-2-5.
But do I hear a sound quality improvement ? I’m not sure if I hear any.
Mark
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
thanks Mark
Hi Cics,
I would gladly to do some extra measurements. Since I now have a special modified P24 extension cable ready for that, it’s no big deal to swap in and out place between the picoPSU.
But before I do some extra measurements, I first want to trace down how it is possible that my current measurements differ so much ( 2,47 A <-> 3.0 A) from those that Bertel did.
I don’t think my multi-meter is bad or broke. So I first want to check al settings in the BIOS (which I already did) and check the numerous XP tweaks and suggested XP fine tuning. Give me a day or two.
I only have a 2x 512 MB RAM HyperX and 2x 1 GB HyperX DDR2 memory modules at hand. But I will do some comparison measurements with those modules on suggested RAM timings.
Measurements done, where taken at 3-3-3-5 RAM timings (manual set) with 512 Mb HyperX DRR2 RAM
I will get back to you on this soon.
Mark
fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
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