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The Ridge Street Audio Enopias is the top of the line for RSA USB cables. The cable I am using is called the Asynchronous model USB cable which is a misnomer as previously pointed out by Gordon. This cable has no VBUS or GND wires to reduce noise from the computer. I should point out the Wavelength Proton, an Asynchronous USB DAC, will not work with this cable since it needs the VBUS line. Also, since there is no reference GND on this cable, you cannot use it if your computer is driven by the internal battery. The other Wavelength DACs don’t use the VBUS for power. Does removal of the VBUS and GND really improve things over the Synchronous Enopias model? I guess this will remain one of the mysteries of audio life.I’ll be brief. The Enopias is by far the best USB cable I have listened to in my system. The Alethias I recently reviewed was excellent. This cable goes beyond the Alethias in soundstage width and depth. In this regards, it is amazing. The new BSO 88.2/24 recordings while good with the Alethias, now have a soundstage size that greatly enhances the listening experience. I did not get this size with the Alethias. Recordings that are small in acoustic space stay small. This cable is not an ambience-soundstage generator.
The deepest bass is more powerful and dynamic with the Enopias. When playing my lease breaking demos, my wife came into the room and thought I was nutz as the house was shaking. The midrange is more open sounding on the Enopias and the highs more detailed. The Alethias sounds a little soft compared to the Enopias at the high end.
So that’s the story of the RSA Asynchronous Enopias at Lucy’s house: a great USB cable that is misnamed and perhaps, would sound the same with the internal GND wire.
Edits: 05/18/09Follow Ups:
Hey all.
First, Thank you Mercman for taking time to post your impressions of the Enopias USB Digital Master. I don't take that lightly knowing that it's something that's earned. Your adjectives are spot on with what I found in the Enopias during evaluation. It's gratifying to me to know that RSAD's efforts make a positive difference with our playback.
In light of some of the hubbub here, it should be noted that Steve's and one other client's cable were more of a custom type Enopias project based on what was designed to be the Enopias and does not represent standard production. Beyond that....
I kinda went back and forth on how to respond to some of the responses on this thread. I did have this long response in my head - would have likely crashed the server :) - but bottom line: I'm pretty busy running a business and helping clients who get what RSAD is about. That's my first priority and is demanding most of my time - more time than I have actually. As for most of the assumptions and conclusions made here regards to me or RSAD, they're based on not knowing everything needed to know to contribute intelligently to this thread and they're incorrect. That's a shame. If anyone has a genuine interest in what RSAD is doing you're welcome to call or pop me an email.
Sorry if this disappoints.
Cheers!
Yours in the service of Music,
Robert
RSAD
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
Oscar Wilde
Robert, fair enough. But in the interest of advancing this discussion, can you at least explain why eliminating the GND might be a good idea, especially in light of the arguments made here against that approach?
Hi David (Out East...correct?)
Good Post and good question. In a nutshell, here's the deal: The ground connection through the USB cable completes a loop running from the computer to the USB DAC, through the USB DAC, through its power supply, out the AC line, through the AC service, through secret microwave towers, to and through space satellites, then through the CIA and Pentagon, then through Federal Govn't funded bailouts (which still don't really solve the problem) - ummm, you get the picture.....and finally back to the computer via its power supply. You might well imagine what all could get introduced here (think EMF or worse - perhaps socialism for example) and if you're thinking it's not good you'd be correct.I suppose it's debatable how the pollutant(s) impact what we hear but with higher end / higher resolution DACs I say it can be discerned - especially in the upper mids or lower treble on up.
Given a conducive set of criteria, eliminating the ground between the computer and DAC can be a good thing...BUT criteria needs to be like Charles mentions below with an AC earth ground - something most folk's systems are tied into.
Still, as a manufacturer, I can't and don't assume this (or any other) is the circumstance with everyone. While I really enjoy custom type projects, standard production of the Poiema!!! R-v3, Alethias! and Enopias USB Digital Master USB cables all are Vbus powered and have ground to cover all installation variables.
Might be good to note that what I do with Vbus and ground in standard production is exclusive to RSAD and minimizes noise artifacts to one degree or another depending on the cable model but, if appropriate conditions are met, eliminating one or both is better - says I.
Cheers!
Robert
RSAD
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."
Oscar Wilde
Edits: 05/20/09
(nt)
THIS IS DIGITAL PEOPLE....... not analogue! I don't care if you paid $10,000 for your usb cable it's technically impossible to "sound" better than my $5 usb cable. If for some reason my $5 usb cable couldn't transfer the 1's and 0's correctly then it's amazing how all these external harddrives using usb even work at all for anything, even regular data files like my excel sheets. If even one single bit of data was altered that excel file would be corrupted and lose my data. Well that doesn't happen so it can't happen if the 1's and 0's are from audio either.
The one you obviously needed is www.HydrogenAudio.com - you will find it much more comforting over there.
justsomeguy65765 wrote:
"THIS IS DIGITAL PEOPLE....... not analogue! I don't care if you paid $10,000 for your usb cable it's technically impossible to "sound" better than my $5 usb cable.
That this notion is commonly held by the public at large and, surprisingly, by some programmers does not make it any less false. Below is a shorter version of how I argued against it some months back:
A computer's internal processing seems to take place without errors but, in the real world, it either proceeds with occasional errors that are detected and corrected by CRCs, parity bits, etc or it corrupts data too severely to be (fault) tolerated, leading to a “crash”.
External activity (output) is a different matter: it is a real-time process with no scope for any “send-that-again” feedback.
In designing high-end, computer-controlled machinery for manufacturing, engineers deal on a daily basis with problems over which audiophiles anguish at length.
Whatever the industry, such machines issue billions of instructions per minute to a plethora of devices under conditions in which errors of a ten-thousandth of an inch decide between a product and scrap metal.
To maintain accuracy, the control electronics, motors, transducers, power supplies etc. must be excellent and vibration suppressed to ensure accurate timing. True, the system is controlled by digital signals but any notion that “it’s just noughts and ones – why the fuss?” is simply ill-informed.
On a more modest scale, the same holds true for high-resolution digital audio. There is, however, an additional, and often overlooked, problem with PC audio: the “real-time” processing of the output is performed inside a more or less stock computer.
Although PC audio bypasses real-time data capture (e.g. having to read CDs “on-the-fly”), RF noise, supply fluctuations and a myriad of other pollutants which are relatively unimportant in data processing (on a PC whose operating system is designed to handle almost everything except precision audio) can severely degrade sound quality. That needs to be addressed.
To configure a computer so that it preserves the integrity of the “real-time” output is to enhance (more accurately, to preserve) sound quality. It is not always easy to do.
Designing USB cables so they approach the ideal electrical specification is a part of this process. The differences between a good and a stock USB cable is certainly quantifiable and often, even with some low-priced after-market cables, audible even to "cable sceptics" such as me.
Some time back, Gordon Rankin posted "eye patterns" that demonstrated the point rather well. True, some list members have sneered at them but there's not a lot one can do about that.
Best
Dave
'Whatever the industry, such machines issue billions of instructions per minute to a plethora of devices under conditions in which errors of a ten-thousandth of an inch decide between a product and scrap metal'
This is a ferry tale made up by manufacturers of very expensive turntables etc. No one can machine to such absolute accuracies with production machine tools. You have to go to nanotechnology for this and turntables will then cost perhaps $1million or more.
It's so comforting to know that someone solved the problem and schooled everyone on 1's and 0's. Wow....it's so simple! Who would'a thought.
Now back to everyone else's everyday reality.
Gotta get me some more Q-Tips -- something must be wrong with my hearing or something. Either that or cut back on the LSD...
Have you detected any differences in sound quality with different USB cables?
I haven't had a chance to play around with any yet. I've been too busy having fun with "unmapping" and ASIO4All. (see link below)
And even though there is absolutely no reason why it should make a difference with an asynchronous mode USB DAC, our Sales Manager Steve Silberman reports that an AudioQuest cable he has sound noticeably better than a generic cable.
Go figure.
You have to spend a minimum of $10,000.00 on them. Then you will hear a difference. Personally, I am waiting for $50,000.00 USB cables before I pull the trigger. = sonic bliss.
I think you are focusing too much on the money and not the sonic results. I can recommend a very nice cable for a very reasonable price:The Wire World USB cable.
Working with Robert, we are trying to push the technology to the max for these cables. Robert's cables make such a positive difference, that I would be dissatisfied not using the RSA Enopias. If you have a fine USB DAC like a Wavelength, Ayre, or Empirical Audio, these cables can make a huge difference in the sound quality. Double blind testing is not required as the differences heard will be obvious to the critical listener .
I want to publically thank Robert for his efforts. I also hope that we can learn from each other and not take criticism personally, but in good fellowship and common interest.
Steve
Edits: 05/19/09
My comment wasn't directed at you Mercman. Sorry if you thought so. I guess I was just hitting out. I believe the most wonderful thing about PC audio is it gave the opportunity for most people to get their foot in the door and I am very appreciative of that. I think my stereo sounds FANTASTIC. I have been in sonic bliss for years now. I guess I just don't want the silliness to over take 'PC Audio'. It's been such a wonderful forum so far. Don't forget about us audiophiles with modest means. :)
You are exactly right Squonk. If you enjoy what you have, what more can you ask for.
But then you has the best sound from your 65 ft of optical cable. How much better is this?
How come you made it work when Gordon says it doesn't?
Fred, you are a real ball breaker!
I have told you many, many times that I am not using the optical cable. As for the Enopias, it works because the computer external power source is grounded.
Ha! Good one. LSD....do you mean "least significant dielectric"??
Didn't know you were into psychotropics. :--)
Gang,
All full speed USB devices require a pull up of 1.5K from a 3.3v source to inform the host controller that a Full Speed device is there and ready to work.
Without a ground reference the pull up will not work because it will move the USB cable from a ground potential to now 3.3v higher. While this may not cause any harm.... it basically will not work.
An interesting note to this and all you cable hackers is that there is at least 20-30 ohms of resistence between Steve's Pro17 and the Crimson as it is going through the Pro's power supply and ground to the common outlet and then back up the Crimson's external power supply and that's a ton of wire and other stuff.
Anyways my point is that you could introduce a BAC (big a** choke) in the ground leg and it may work and impede any noise coming from the host computer.
VBUS can be eliminated and the use of Async in the name of cable should be dropped since it has nothing to do with Async USB.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Gordon,
Thanks for that detailed explanation.
Jim
Getting rid of the V+ connection won't hurt anything if it's not used by the downstream device. But getting rid of the ground connection is playing with fire!
As long as both the computer and the DAC have 3-wire power cords with functioning safety grounds in a house that has functioning safety grounds, you can probably get away with it. In that instance the safety ground will hold the two pieces of equipment within a volt or so of each other.
But if you *don't* have functioning safety grounds on the equipment, or you *don't* have a newish house with functioning safety grounds, or you are using "cheater" plugs for correcting the AC polarity or improved sound, then you are simply going to blow up the USB receiver chip on the DAC. In any of the above situations, you can easily see several tens of volts on the input pins of the USB receiver chip (common mode, but in this case it doesn't matter). That is far more than any USB receiver was designed to handle.
Whoever designed that cable only knows enough about electronics to be dangerous. A differential input (such as is found on a USB receiver chip) has a thing called a "common-mode input range". It is typically less than 5 volts even on things designed for that kind of service. But no USB receiver chip is designed to accept any common-mode voltage to speak of. Use this cable at your own risk!
But surely, Charles, if your QB-9 USB DAC sounds fantastic with stock USB cables, with this $900 USB cable, its sound quality must certainly reach Brobdingnagian levels, which can't be a bad thing...Even if a few things are smoking.
.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Edits: 05/18/09
Sorry for intruding, but I was very confused by your signature.
音楽は力です。
is not really a translation of "Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry."
Also, it sounds really strange. Do you mean 音楽は力があります。 (music has strength)
Alternatively, 音楽は強力です。 (music is powerful)
Yes it is not supposed to be a translation of Karma....音楽は力です。＝音楽ongaku ,music. はha,is. 力chikara, power [strength kind of power]
音楽は活力です。 ＝音楽ongaku, music. はha,is. 活力katsu ryoku [power or energy of life kind of power]。。。katsu=life ryoku=power
音楽は強力です。 ＝same as above except you use kyou royoku or strong power...強=つよい or strong.
When I wrote it I was just thinking and writing the basic word for strong chikara....but actually katsu ryoku would be more accurate.
あなたは日本人ですか？
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Edits: 05/18/09
ダインアウティオさん、
お返事をありがとうございました。
「音楽は力です」のは、ちょっと変と思います。
「音楽は力のようです」のほうがいいと思います。
日本語を勉強するのは、がんばってくださいね。
あたしも日本語の学生です。
これから、いつでも互いに音楽を楽しみましょう！
I really don't want to go back and forth about the finer points of Japanese. But from what I understand, 力のよう＝like power. I really don't want to say music is like power. I simple want to say and did say music is power.Furthermore how can I tell my wife that her Japanese is wrong...her being native Japanese
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Edits: 05/18/09
Well, the expression you used is not wrong, since it's grammatically correct. But it does sound strange and unnatural.
You probably asked your wife for a literal translation of "Music is power" and she gave you a literal translation. However, it sounds like "Gaijin Japanese", ie. its the sort of expression a gaijin would say. If you don't mind that, then it's fine.
It would probably sound better if you used the plain form (ie. "音楽…力だ！") because that is probably closer in intent and style to the original English. Putting the です copula onto it is what makes it strange. The equivalent in English would be "Music, thou art power!"
PS - "よう" doesn't have quite the same meaning as "like" in the expression "音楽は力のようです", it is a way of saying "music is power" in polite form. Without the よう it kind of sounds a bit too direct (and probably a bit pretentious as well - remember, in polite form you want to avoid being too direct or assertive). As I've mentioned before, it's not grammatically incorrect, but it's all about the impression the reader gets about your personality when they read the sentence.
I like that expression.
Regards,
Geoff
Or self proclaimed expert
Analyzing, scrutinizing, trying to prove who's the smartest, and practicing the art of one-ups-manship...such is the Computer Audio Asylum forum. Opps, is 'one-ups-manship' even a word? Is it spelled right? Will people understand?
KAMAWANAI!
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
"Kamawana" is not an English word. What you probably mean is "Come along, won't you?" However, if you would ask a native speaker, they might interpret it colloquially "come on, whiner!!", which is commonly used in certain regions of North Carolina as a greeting.
.
Its is a possessive pronoun used to show ownership
You should have used It's [it is] instead of Its...
Your single use of this one word incorrectly leads me to the presumption that you are an idiot. Actually I know that you are not, but its just the anal retentiveness in some folks that make them a bit too proud or a bit too critical of others.
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Personally, I thought your elegantly restrained and tactful responses to the off-topic nitpicking made your point much more eloquently than these later bits of hardly-veiled unfounded ad hominems.
You probably asked your wife for a literal translation of "Music is power" and she gave you a literal translation.
Please don't be presumptuous, it can come across as insulting. I am not an expert in Japanese like you but I can write music is power. However 'music is like power' is totally wrong and actually made her laugh when she read it. Until that point she had known nothing of the writing.
I don't mind sounding or putting words together like a gaijin because I am a gaijin. Since there is no true 1:1 translation between English and Japanese there will be some creative freedoms in expression. However even Japanese from different prefectures will make sentences completely different even using totally different words.
I feel that the act of trying to correct someone in Japanese is definitely one of the learner as supposed to the knower. Because as we learn some people stick strictly to what they were taught and tend to correct everyone. This is most obvious on sites where people are trying to learn Japanese, when they spend hours on end trying to correct each others small grammar or spelling glitches. Much like this forum where people spend their time looking for any error in any post so that they may try to correct or give a counter point.
I am sure that when you speak and listen to Japanese people daily you are aware of the incorrectness [non text book use] of their daily normal dialog. Perhaps this is my error, learning Japanese from Japanese instead of a text book...
Karma Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry 音楽は力です。
Actually I am not sure what your English version means. Care to explain?
Well, I certainly hope PC Audio never gets to the point where one must spend at least a grand on a USB cable.
-t
What cable did you buy?
"Well, I certainly hope PC Audio never gets to the point where one must spend at least a grand on a USB cable."
No... TOO LATE - we're there.
I don't own a high-buck USB solution.
Cheers,
Presto
Thanks Charlie. Yes I have everything grounded, but Robert should make a new cable for me. Gordon was right, this was a silly cable in terms of safety and engineering.
Edits: 05/18/09
Interesting ; $950 for 1/2m without ground. There is no useful info on their website either.
What with and how are the cables made?
One would think the cable should be less expensive if it has two less runs of wire :)
It was under $900 for a 2 meter cable. Robert claims he is using larger gauge silver wire in this model. Let's see how Robert takes care of this problem.
That s NOT the price on the website; or are you being used as a guinea pig for a duff cable?
He has lower prices listed. I just have to find it.
"or are you being used as a guinea pig for a duff cable?"
I hope not Fred. Robert has been honest and a plesaure to work with in the past.
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