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Hello!
It's been a while -- I hope everyone is well!
It's about time for me to update my computers, and instead of continuing to use a small laptop through which to run my WAV files to the DAC, I'm thinking I'd like to try a fan-less mini PC this time around.
All my music files reside on an external SSD. The only things required of this little computer will be to run JRiver (HDMI to a large screen), and to send the digital signal via USB to the DAC.
I'd like some recommendations for a good Windows 10 mini PC (form factor similar to a Mac Mini would be nice).
My WiFi situation is still rather primitive here in my current semi-off-grid situation. It'll probably be at least several months before I'll have anything more than the WiFi from my iPhone's hotspot, and where I am, the signal isn't all that strong. Enough for email and basic web surfing, but streaming is only practical on the little phone screen itself. Trying to send it to the big screen just doesn't work.
Downloading large files onto the laptop is out of the question as well. I still have to take my laptop to the library for major downloads (like downloading new music files and the latest version of JRiver for the new mini PC). Here are the basic requirements I think I'd like in the new mini PC:
Full HD (at least 1080p), HDMI output, USB inputs/outputs, and SD card slot (to transfer music and installation files I've downloaded onto the laptop). It shouldn't need a really large HD, as the music files are external, but still, I would like internal storage to be SSD.
The requirements seem pretty simple, but I would like a decent quality little machine to handle them. Any preferred machines of this sort you'd like to recommend?
Thanks!
Melissa
Follow Ups:
I'm currently using a 5 year-old fanless mini/"TV box" Windows 10 32-bit computer to run Foobar2000; it works perfectly well to play hi-rez music files.This device is extremely modest: Intel Atom @ 1.33 GHz; 2 GB ram; 64GB storage. It has USB 2 only, (not USB 3), and only 100 mbps LAN.
All music is stored on and played directly from my Synology NAS with no problems.
Considering the this tiny computer cost under $150, (including the Windows copy), I see no reason to mess with Raspberry or other, typically more expensive streamers for playing music. I would certainly hate to have to do without Foobar which having been using for over a decade and am very used to and content with.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 03/10/20 03/10/20
Beelink J34 with Celeron J3455, 8GB RAM, 128GB SSDFrankly this is a bit overkill for running Foobar2000. I'll be using this one as mostly "TV box" to improve to read movies & videos from my NAS, improve my Netflix experience, etc. BTW, it is NOT fanless but from 10' away the fan is inaudible.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 03/13/20 03/13/20 03/13/20
I run a Intel NUC with JRMC and W10 as the OS feeding my DAC. I have my files on a NAS, about 5TB worth of files, mostly 192/24 FLAC rips of my vinyl but also other hi res files. Further, I don't upsample these files as for me there is no benefit.
The NUC has a 120gb SSD and 4gb of RAM. I removed the fan and mounted it into an Akasa fanless case. The biggest sonic improvement for the NUC came from using a diy 18v LPS.
As it relates to your requirements, my NUC does not have an SD card slot. The only downside of the NUC for me is that the WIFI antenna is not great. Fine for internet surfing but not great for the NAS on the home network via wifi. My NAS has a second LAN output and the NUC is hardwired to the NAS. You can mitigate this using a USB wifi dongle/antenna.
I would recommend at least an I3 chip although I currently have no issues with a Pentium powered model.
Looks like you did a very nice job with that. Before I got around to buying the one I have, I decided the SD card slot wasn't that important (has plenty of USB, after all), but it turns out to have one anyway. So, I put a 128GB card in the slot. Just because. :) Right now, it's just holding onto the JRiver installation file and registration key, and Bifrost USB driver installation files.
Though the WiFi works fine in my little machine, aside from the initial "Windows activation" thing, I'm not expecting to bother with the WiFi, as I have no interest in surfing, streaming, etc. with this machine. I've turned the networking off.
It's doing what I expected from it -- running JRiver, receiving the USB input from the external SSD, and outputting the digital signal to the DAC.
If it decides to roll over and die in a week, I'll rethink the situation, and perhaps go for a slightly more robust solution. So far, so good with the minimal tasks I'm asking of it. :)
Melissa
I have a small music collection but if you have one that can fit on an sd card, all I can tell you is that things sounded much better when I ditched the usb drive and put everything on an sd card.
Cut to razor sounding violins
Hello Dawnrazor,
You wrote:
"...all I can tell you is that things sounded much better when I ditched the usb drive and put everything on an sd card."
Could you describe what "sounded much better" means to you in this regard?
I see there are 2TB SD cards available (my music files currently reside on a 2TB external USB SSD, with a backup copy on an identical drive).
In any event, if I do decide to try the SD card option, I may have to get a more robust mini PC than the one I'm currently using. For some reason, the manufacturer states that SD cards "up to 128GB" can be used with it. I asked why this is the stated limit, but haven't yet received an answer.
Yes some computers have an sd card limit but not sure why. Luckily my collection fits on 128g
Everything was clearer and less distorted. Like some grunge was removed. My guess is the usb drive was polluting the power or something.
Cut to razor sounding violins
Hello Dawnrazor,
You wrote:
"...all I can tell you is that things sounded much better when I ditched the usb drive and put everything on an sd card."
Interesting. Do you have an internal SSD? If so, would you consider using that as music file storage instead of the SD card?
The mini PC I have currently has just a small internal drive, but it can be expanded up to a 2TB HDD (I'll have to look into it further, but from what I think I understand so far, it seems the expansion possibility is for up to a 2TB spinning HDD, not SSD). I'm currently using a 2TB external SSD--connected via USB--for my music files, and I need something of that size.
I've had this mini PC only a few days, so it's still in its "probationary" period. I'll be waiting to see just how stable/reliable it is before I would consider any new internal drive for it -- of any sort.
I still have to use USB as the output to the DAC, but using an internal drive for the music files would certainly simplify things a bit. Might ultimately mean a different mini PC that could take a 2TB SSD.
One thing I'd really like to keep the same is the silent--fanless--nature of this tiny computer.
I'd be interested to hear from others as well regarding using an internal SSD vs. external USB SSD for music file storage in a machine meant for this dedicated purpose (music "playing" software and sending digital music files to a DAC).
Yeah the pc has an internal ssd. Its only 64g I think. I have it in my head that the music and the operating system should be separate. So the sd card fixes that. Plus they are cheap and easy compared to upgrading to an internal ssd with enough room.
Plus you can move the files easily between computers if you like.
Cut to razor sounding violins
I did receive an answer from the seller (manufacturer?) of the mini PC I'm currently using. Said that the computer "may not" recognize anything larger than 128GB in the SD slot.
Unless I go to a different mini PC solution that has more capacity/capability, I'm limited to my current solution for the music files -- a 2TB external USB SSD.
This is my first time experimenting with a mini PC as my music server, and I do like the silence of the fan-less operation. Will continue to consider a more robust mini PC solution than the one I currently have (see link).
The tiny PC arrived today. I've installed its one program (JRiver), a mouse, bluetooth keyboard, connected the external SSD (music files contained on it), and the outbound USB to the DAC.It's working! :)
Melissa
Edits: 02/19/20
It's very inexpensive, fanless (quiet), tiny, and for the minimal work I'll be expecting from it, I hope it'll do the job.I'll be getting a much more powerful laptop to replace my old one, and though I'm excited about getting it, I'm certainly not looking forward to starting from scratch with all my programs and transferring of data. Glad I don't have to go through all that bother very often. :)
I'll let you know how the mini PC works out.
Melissa
Edits: 02/14/20
Please let us know how it works out. I've played with JRiver MC briefly a long time ago so I'm not that familiar with it. The only area where your choice -might be- under powered is for "Theater View", but you never mentioned a need to run it. According to the JRiver MC System Requirements for "Theater View":
- Intel Core i5 (Quad-Core) or better
- Windows 7/8.1 (32 or 64 bit) or newer
- 4GB of RAM
- AMD Radeon HD 6770, Nvidia GTX 550, or better GPU
- Solid state (SSD) boot drive for installation and Library files.
I'd be curious to know how your 1.1GHz (2.6GHz max) dual-core Celeron N4000 based fanless PC works out for your audio playback needs. Enjoy!
All I want is my list of music on the left-side tree, and the list of currently playing music in the window to the right.When I listen to music, I have no interest in looking at anything. I'm listening. :)
By the way -- my music files are all on a 2TB external SSD (USB A into the computer, and USB C into the external drive. Then just a USB output to the DAC. Any new music I download and/or rip will be going directly to the external drive. I'll do all the downloading via the laptop (in a place where I can get good WiFi), so the mini-PC never has to be connected to the Internet.
I will be sure to let you know how it works out.
Edits: 02/15/20
Thanks to everyone for your recommendations and ideas. I think I've decided on a fanless mini PC, and I'll let you know how it works out. If this little machine performs its minimal functions well without any immediate need of updating, it will remain unconnected to the Internet.
I'm also pretty excited about getting a new laptop to replace my old (2012) laptop. It has served me well, but it's time to retire. :)
Thanks again!
Hi,
Just received last night a Minis FORUM Fanless Intel Atom Quad Core PC from Amazon. I wanted a PC to replace both the now limited ROKU Stick I have and my aging Dell PC which has noisy fans. Flash sales for $118 I could not pass up. (now $149 full price).
Set it up in no time and installed Tidal, Hulu, Netflix and was listening to great tunes in an hour.
A great buy for my system. Fast and apparently bug-free. Came with Win 10 PRO installed.
Easy peasy
Fmak is a highly medicated person I think, so cut him some slack :)
Here is one I bought recently. I had another one that worked fine but the latency was often too high. this one has a lot lower latency which IMHO is helpful for audio.
Cut to razor sounding violins
n/t
"We need less, but better" - Dieter Rams
Any of these will do the job. Although some have fans, they won't operate unless the PC is working hard. Just add a monitor, or (as I do) you can hang the NUC from the back of the monitor using the supplied plateIf you go to the Roon website, they offer links to NUCs that particularly well suit their software and are fanless.
Edits: 02/10/20
buy any with a fan, especially if you want high sampling rates and high bit depth, and want to use sound editors or play video.
It is worth getting a 4 core i7 media pc if finances allow. Zotac nano pcs work quite well and are sometimes discounted on amazon us.
Hi fmak,I wrote:
"The only things required of this little computer will be to run JRiver (HDMI to a large screen), and to send the digital signal via USB to the DAC."
Then you wrote:
"Don't buy any with a fan,..."
Yes, I did specify "fan-less". But then, you went on to write:
"...especially if you want high sampling rates and high bit depth, and want to use sound editors or play video."
So, you didn't believe me? Sometimes, you guys make me laugh. :)
It's not about finances. I'm spending a good deal on my new "power computer" (a different computer entirely), but to repeat myself -- I want a quiet little machine to handle TWO simple tasks: Run JRiver, and send the digital music files to a DAC. I usually try to say what I mean, after all. :)
Of course, I don't want something that will roll over and die after a week -- hence my original final thought:
"The requirements seem pretty simple, but I would like a decent quality little machine to handle them."
One thing I've decided since my original post -- if it doesn't have SD card slot, I can live with just a USB thumb drive for transferring files I'd like to install (basically, I will be installing ONE program).
Thanks again. :)
Edits: 02/11/20 02/11/20 02/11/20
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