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In Reply to: RE: So Fitz - what do you use? posted by Fitzcaraldo215 on July 22, 2017 at 10:15:38
It's just that it appears fairly daunting for me to start over at the beginning, having to edit all the tags and meta information which I've already done with iTunes, just to get the info into JRiver properly. I may just give Audirvana some more time to see what they can do as far as ASIO support is concerned. My multi-channel files still number below a thousand at this point, so I can probably wait a bit longer. And I still love some of the capabilities of HQ Player which don't seem to exist on other playback software.
I think that, no matter what you do, you can't have it all! ;-)
Follow Ups:
Chris - I know nothing about iTunes, except it seems to be a boy purporting to do a man's work. But, I am not sure there is a tagging problem. As long as iTunes adheres to industry standards for tagging, that should transfer to JRiver. JRiver can also support as many custom tag fields as you desire, but you really do not need many beyond its standard set to handle a big classical library. I recommend only two:
Composition: the title of the composition which might have multiple movements on multiple tracks.
Subgenre: while the Genre tag might indicate Classical, Popular, Jazz, etc., the sub-genre can be useful in classical to identify Symphony, Oratorio, Ballet, Opera, Chamber, etc.
If all the other audio library tools included just these two added fields to their standard tags, it would make a world of difference. But, then again, the disc authors don't even fill in all the standard metadata they should as it is.
. . . you'll have a double CD set, and disc 1 will have the info entered in a certain way, while disc 2 (from the same set!) will have a completely different way of entering the data - as if two different people entered the data, using multiple standards. I even find that my own entries are inconsistent, as I've changed changed (or forgotten!) my methodolgies over the years.
Maybe I'm a bit defensive about the iTunes database capabilities: yes, it does have its restrictions (notably, it doesn't deal with the FLAC format, or with multi-channel), but I wouldn't say that makes it "a boy purporting to do a man's work" - but whatever. I definitely can't use it for my multichannel files, so I do need to find something else for these files at some point.
Regarding the tagging fields, you're recommending only two (composition and subgenre)? What about composer, or artist (performer)? And as Kal's and Old Listener's examples show, there must be a field for album or booklet cover too - I've gotta have the album cover field! ;-)
Those 2 new custom fields are all that I found necessary to add in JRiver. Composer, artist, etc. etc. and all the other fields necessary for comprehensive classical tagging are already defined in JRiver's standard library format.
Sorry, but a library tool that will not handle Flac and Mch, is rather puny these days. I have not heard of an audio or video format JRiver cannot handle.
But, yes, the metadata supplied by the authors on the disc itself is seldom reliable or complete, especially for classical. Everything has to be edited or filled in manually. As long as the library tool handles industry standard formats, there is no problem. I have heard some weird stories about Foobar on that score, for example.
Maybe so, but remember that the vast majority of listeners (unlike you, Kal, or me) are not into multi-channel at all. Most listening today is through headphones and earbuds. So I don't blame Apple for sizing up the market and acting accordingly. As for FLAC, that format is very easy to convert to other formats if necessary.
In any case, I played around with the Audirvana database a bit more earlier today. It seems equally at home with multi-channel, 2-channel, FLAC, AIFF, etc. I still need to see what it does with DSD.
If I do start to rely on Audirvana as my primary database, I'll be sad to lose some of the capabilities of iTunes, such as the count it keeps of how many times I've listened to certain tracks, the last time I listened to a track, etc. - fun things, rather than make-or-break things. But fun things can still contribute to making life worth living! ;-)
Chris - I have zero actual experience with iTunes. So, my opinion is superficial at best. And, yes, we can exist using different specialist tools for different formats. But, I prefer a single library tool that handles all my formats - including video by the way - both now and in the future. I prefer a single method of tagging and maintaining my entire library, and a single user interface for album/track selection for playback.
iTunes strikes me as both lightweight and oriented to Apple's own proprietary pop music market aspirations and concepts, regardless of what my actual needs may be. Sure, Roon and many others are the same.
And, for me it is a must that any tool I use also handle classical tagging and cataloging in depth. If my needs do not conform to what is popular in the marketplace, then I need to move on to find the niche tool is that does best meet my needs.
MusiChi is designed from the ground up for classical. If all I played were CD's and downloads in stereo, I might be satisfied with that. But, I need much more than that, since 99% of my music collecting over the last 10 years has been Mch SACD, BD-A and BD-V. So, JRiver is easily the ticket for me, and it has allowed me to streamline my audio/video system in the process.
BTW, JRiver automatically maintains information about previous plays by track, including the date you last played something. Agreed, that info is not crucial, but it is handy sometimes.
My only major disappointment with JRiver is that it still offers no easy scheme to tag at the chapter level of Blu-rays, and it also does not have access to the BD disc menu. Most all available tools do not, because the BD format is so difficult to deal with, but it sure would be nice.
But, I am approaching the 4,000 album mark in my library with JRiver, including many multi-disc albums. No CDs, just SACDs in DSF, Mch downloads also in DSF at DSD64,128 and 256 plus Flac from 88k-384k, BD-A and -Vs with LPCM, DTS-HDMA, Dolby THD in PCM 48k-192k. Handling all these formats in Mch is a minimum requirement of mine.
It was more capable than I remembered and it too remembers your track playing history. And it turned out that most of the files converted over just fine, without too much hassle or "damage" to their fields.
Unlike you, I have not ripped DVD-A's, SACD's and blu-ray audio discs to the computer, except for a few DVD-A's. As you may remember, native Mac support for blu-ray is non-existent, although there are some third-party utilities which can be used. (Steve Jobs famously called blu-ray "a bag of hurt"!) So almost all of my MCh files on computer are directly from downloads, and most of my rips are from plain old CD's. I'm at the 2,500 mark right now in terms of number of albums available, but I have plenty of discs still to be ripped (including almost all my MCh discs).
I may still give JRiver another shot at some point.
Chris,
So if I understand correctly, upon transferring to JRiver from iTunes all of the information has to be re-editied? But not if going from iTunes to Audirvana?
What is the advantage of ASIO drivers?
TIA
Rob
I have not dealt with the JRiver database.
As for Audirvana, it can operate in two different modes as far as which kind of database you want to use is concerned. It has its own database which you can use, or you can switch to Audirvana's "iTunes Compatibility Mode", where you use the iTunes database, but the Audirvana engine takes over the actual sound playback function. (IOW, iTunes is used just for its database organization and nothing beyond that.)
The ASIO driver I use is for use with the exaSound e38 DAC - it has more capabilities than Apple's standard Core Audio driver, such as support for very high PCM sample rates or unconverted DSD output. This would be useless however if I didn't have playback software (in my case, HQ Player) which also supports the ASIO driver. exaSound installs a handy little program which allows you to choose between Apple's Core Audio driver and the ASIO driver (which I believe originally came from Steinberg Technologies).
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