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In Reply to: RE: I'll stick with JRiver posted by Terry on June 12, 2017 at 11:26:24
I found Roon to be slightly lower SQ than MPD, and the same as LMS.
When you consider that the former are free, -- yipes.
The user IF doesn't work on older iPADs. If you're a MAC household, that means a very cumbersome time with a too-small-iphone. You can't easily play all songs/albums by a particular artist. You cannot quickly scroll through "albums/artists" by selecting a corresponding letter: (like all artists that start with an "L)."
LMS does Tidal, QoBuz, Soundcloud, Pandora, Spotify, & on & on.
For me, Roon isn't in the ballgame....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Sorry to be so dense...
LMS - Logitech Media Server - First developed for the Logitech Squeezebox Stuff... Now supported by a Cadre of Developers Worldwide with very sophisticated Plugins and updates. I have it running on my NAS... Very Intuitive and the Best (IMNSHO) User Interface of Music Streamer Software.
MPD - Music Player Deamon -- I have not used but you can refer to this page if you're interested.
Thanks very much. I always knew LMS as Squeezebox, but that was before Logitech bought it. I was guessing "Logitech Music..." but ketp wanting to add "Player", so didn't hit upon the answer.
The name "Music Player Daemon" suggests that it is only for the Linux OS, but it appears that there are also compilations for both Windows and Mac. Thanks again.
I find LMS to be primitive compared to Roon but everyone has the right to their own opinion..(perhaps it's a case of rtfm?). I ran LMS with various Squeezeboxes for many years, and I couldn't wait to be rid of it when Roon came along.
In terms of processing power, Roon is not terribly hungry. A while back I was using a celeron J1700 (which has about 1/10th the processing power of a decent i7).
On this I had Roon running with it's database on an SSD. Library on NAS was > 500GB. It outputted to Hqplayer (on the same machine) to upsample to 192k, then passed the data to Acourate Convolver (also on same machine) for real time convolution, then output via USB.
I never had any stablity problems. This used to run at a total CPU load of around 30-50%
I've since moved this to a new i7 and the whole caboodle now chugs along at around 4-6% cpu.
I can see how Roon adds value for those who are very much into pictures, stories and links to related topics about artists and their history. That appears to be Roon's focus :
"In the transition from physical to digital media, something has been lost. We have more convenience than ever, but no feeling of excitement or engagement...
What you get is a searchable, surfable magazine about your music."
As for me, I find excitement and engagement listening to the music using inexpensive tools like LMS and iPeng that work just fine on your phone. :)
That, and reading the back side of LP covers. :-)
For me the 'Best' means efficient access to what I what to listen to. Whether it be a Music Streaming Service, a radio station, or a track from my own library. Clean, concise and accurate.
No pictures or stories needed for myself.
So tell me this : Suppose you're playing a track on LMS and you'd like to see what other artists have recorded that same track (across your library and any streaming services you use)...is that a one-click operation - or even possible? In Roon it's one-click. That's what I call 'clean and concise' (..and you can see how many other versions there are without clicking anything)
Or maybe you'd like to see who wrote the song, and see what other songs they wrote? You can't do that in LMS with a couple clicks.
How about seeing what you were playing to your friend (supposing you have one) last week or last month? I like the way that Roon shows me my complete history going back 18 months now.
In fact the lack of LMS's ability to have any kind of history strikes me as a big failing, something I found really annoying.
Maybe you know every piece of music ever written, but I don't, so I find the music discovery features of Roon very useful. Whereas the LMS way of presenting music is like a text file, Roon is like hypertext, with many links that you can follow, just like the WWW.
You don't like metadata? Well the name of the track is metadata, so is the artist that recorded it. Do you have something against these, preferrring "track01 unknown artist"? So you see, LMS uses and presents metadata, just not so much and not as well.
I can understand people preferring Jriver to Roon, but LMS?
I like the way that Roon shows me my complete history going back 18 months now. In fact the lack of LMS's ability to have any kind of history strikes me as a big failing, something I found really annoying.
That answers a question I've never asked. :)
edit: So, how do you use that information?
Ways to use Roon History - Some examples:
-- when exploring new music (eg new releases on Tidal, or just generally surfing your own or Tidal's library, you don't need to keep track of what you play, in case you like to go back for a second or third listen. (easily answers "what was that new band I was playing two days or two weeks ago)
-- when friends come over you can let them play what they like and later go back and find out what tracks you liked. (For some of my friends that's sometimes "none", but others can play some real interesting things I'd not heard.
-- for myself who spends a significant part of my listening time testing various things, I find it very useful to be able to, for example, go back and play the same tracks I did last tuesday when I was testing XYZ cable or whatever. Sometimes I can't even remember what I played an hour ago, and in fact I don't need to even try to remember.
-- nostalgia - browse what you played last spring, or on your birthday.
Given that my own memory is not what it used to be, I like that I can use computer memory when I can..maybe the history is not so useful to everyone but I love it.
when exploring new music (eg new releases on Tidal...
I use Tidal's "favorites" feature when exploring new music.
...or just generally surfing your own or Tidal's library, you don't need to keep track of what you play, in case you like to go back for a second or third listen...Sometimes I can't even remember what I played an hour ago, and in fact I don't need to even try to remember.
All righty then!
and I'm pretty good at finding out everything I want to know about artists, composers and the like using the internet.
And, as I use both QOBUZ and TIDAL, pretty much everything I wish to hear is searchable using their respective web sites and I always have an iPad or MacBook Air at arms length if for no other reason than to 'troll' the folks who visit here! :-)
LOL and you are the Champ!!!
I didn't think 'being free' was a major concern of most audiophiles, who spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on music, components and cables, etc.
Yes google is free but it really can't do half of what Roon can do.
It's hard to list all the things in this category as there are so many, but for a start, your playing history is a good example - google knows nothing about that. It also doesn't know what is in your library, so it can't automagically link it with Tidal seamlessly.
Now if you only have a few albums, know exactly what you want to play and don't want to listen to anything new then a simpler system might work. But many people really enjoy the music discovery built into Roon. A large percentage of what I listen to now I've discovered via Roon's built-in tools, like "Simlar Artists", hyperlinks from artist or album descriptions and so on, artists and albums I'd probably never have discovered via google. When I'm in the mood I can spend hours checking out new music that I wouldn't normally listen to.
Another really elegant and concise thing is the way the Roon interface is the same across PCs, Macs and iPads. iPeng used to annoy me with it's idiosyncracies and bugs.
Like to know the dynamic range of tracks? Sure you can run an external program but Roon does this automatically.
Same thing with lyrics - you can search but it's so much easier clicking an icon and bang, they are there. Point is you probably wouldn't bother using the internet to search for lyrics much.
I could list many more things like this..
No, but it knows all of the porn you search for, so that's a start! =:-0
I can find pretty much everything that Leonard Bernstein wrote, conducted, recorded, etc. by searching QOBUZ, TIDAL and Amazon.
I care not a whit for 'track' information, 'songs' or similar artists.
Lyrics? They are usually in a language I do not speak (except for Bernstein). ;-)
Well not everybody listens exclusively to music without words, or just non-english words..
But a very quick search on my Roon shows 189 albums with Bernstein as performer, and 251 as composer, across my library and Tidal. Took as long as a single normal google search.
Thing is when I listen to music I like to not fart around with google, etc. ymmv
might be a few compilations and duplicates there I'm guessing.
I doubt I'll get through them all.
"Well not everybody listens exclusively to music without words, or just non-english words.."
But then I'm not trying to convince YOU that YOU should not be using Roon.
Clearly you SHOULD.
OTOH, YOU seem to be convinced that I should be using Roon! I'm just saying that it's likely NOT the case.
When I listen to music I mostly don't like messing around with the software that is playing it and yes, everyone's mileage varies which has been my point all along.
I don't need Roon, I'm not going to pay for Roon and I certainly don't need a 'lifetime' subscription because, at my age, EVERYTHING I buy comes with a 'lifetime' guarantee! :-)
And yes, I'm pretty happy with LMS as it streams TIDAL and QOBUZ and everything on the hard drive of the computer it's loaded on.
Now if you can convince me that Roon sounds considerably BETTER than LMS on MY system, I MIGHT listen.
Nope I wasn't saying that you should use Roon; I was simply talking about some of it's cool features. (This is a Roon thread after all)
As far as sound quality, well one thing that would be an improvement (and I can say this with some certainty) would be to use HQplayer to upsample your 44/16 output to 192/24 or 96/24 and then put it into your Audio-GD dac (just like the one I have). I don't think you can feed it from LMS into HQplayer, but guess which software does support this approach..
Mostly not interested in any topics you raised. If I was interested, I'd use Google..... I only use Streamer Software to stream what I want to.
So, again, we are coming at this from completely different perspectives.
What, Google knows about all the tracks you played in the last year?
And it can search Tidal's database? Cool. Google is better than I thought.
Again, I am not concerned about what I played last year.... Can't you accept that we have totally different needs and wants. Not all people are the same you know.
Boy that is the truth. I'm a visual person and want pretty pictures! When people tell me they want to look a list of file names I can't understand why.
I also suck at Excel and balance sheets.
Different strokes for different folks.
I am about to go sit on a panel of winemakers as a very non-technical winemaker and feel like I'm going to be "found out" for being a slacker.
Just a minute now : You said:
LMS ... Very Intuitive and the Best (IMNSHO) User Interface of Music Streamer Software.
That is what I was arguing about. Having used both extensively I can't see how you can claim it's the best. Like arguing that a horse is better transport device than a car. Sure, you might prefer horses yourself, but that is not the same thing.
And again it depends on what your Criteria is... For me LMS is the Best, because I have completely different criteria than yourself.
I can accept that Roon is Best for yourself, because you have different criteria than me.
Magic Tubes and Black Pod footers?? -- If you believe in this collection of SnakeOil, I am sure there is very little we agree on.
I offered my Opinion, you have yours. But, as a self described 'Mad Scientist', we are clearly coming from a different planet.
These are excellent products that make a positive contribution to the sound of one's system.
we are clearly coming from a different planet
Numeracy was never my strong point but should that not be "we are clearly coming from different planets"? I'm not saying you're wrong, mind.
Is there a point worth making that could not be made stronger via numeracy police approval? ;)
I feel like if I don't address your follow up quip I may be accused of not having gotten it.
Is there a point worth making that could not be made stronger via grammar police approval? ;)
I think I get your point but the joke (for such it was - sorry if you missed it) was about numeracy, not grammar. My point was that, if you're going to insult someone, FFS do it properly 'cos, if you don't, you might just look a bit silly.
Hence the follow-up quip (my mistake being forgetting that some inmates don't do jokes), "I'm not saying you're wrong, mind". IOW, I was suggesting that it's Cut-Throat who sometimes seems to come from a different planet.
If any other jokes from me leave you floundering, don't hesitate to get in touch.
Is it OK now?
Silly me. I'm so embarrassed. That's such an important distinction. Thank you for your kind offer. ;)
Not everyone gets (or appreciates) Brit humor....fortunately, I do.
Carry on, good Sir....
I might be a mad scientist now, but before that I had a 35+ year career as a software designer and programmer. Believe what you like.
I think it's a matter of people being comfortable and familiar with what they have been using for many years. I ran LMS on my Mac for years with the Squeezebox in the kitchen, along with running Pure Music on the same Mac in the main setup. To me LMS was sufficient and worked great for the kitchen setup but I didn't find it particularly special.
I also preferred Audirvana Plus for a while on the Mac, even after installing Roon. But now that I'm familiar with Roon I prefer it over Audirvana Plus, Pure Music, or LMS.
Roon sounds great and the interface is powerful on my computer screen locally or my iPad as a remote control.
My biggest problem with Roon, was the U.I. ---- Not nearly as intuitive as LMS. And then you have to pay for it as well. I think Roon appeals to those that are into Metadata.
Still running LMS, even though I have no more Squeezeboxes in house. Replaced with 5 Raspberry Pies
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