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In Reply to: RE: Renderers vs. Servers posted by Dynobot on May 06, 2017 at 08:06:59
1. Periodically "vacuum" the SQLite databases. Procedure covered here.
2. I configure the server's "Database Memory Config" to "maximum" and "Priority" to a negative value (higher CPU priority)
Web control-->Settings-->Advanced-->Performance
Follow Ups:
Thats Great!
Is LMS running on its own separate computer?
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
Is LMS running on its own separate computer?
In my case, yes. It's an i7-860 based office server.
BTW, version 3 of sqlite appends a "3" to the executable so you'll need to rename it or tweak the batch file found in the post.
Great.
Then if you have time and a spare USB stick. Flash Daphile rt. version and use it as your LMS server. Boot from the USB stick and listen for a difference.
No worries is you don't want too or don't have time. I too use a separate computer for my LMS and tried a whole lot of options. Being LMS you can still perform your usual cleaning etc.
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
I'm not exactly sure what you mean. On their website, I find:
" It enables the best possible audio quality and future-proof flexibility by providing plug&play support for USB connected digital-to-analog converters (DAC)."
I don't use USB to connect to either DAC.
Daphile = LMS + Squeeze ie, server and renderer.
Which means you can use it as only a server, LMS as only a renderer Squeeze or both. As such yes you can, if you want connect a USB device.
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
Which means you can use it as only a server, LMS as only a renderer Squeeze or both. As such yes you can, if you want connect a USB device.
1. Already have a server
2. Already have multiple renderers
3. Don't use any USB devices
No thanks. :)
Could you please elaborate at bit as I'm getting a bit lost in the terminology here?Not surprisingly, as my area of expertise in audio playback is pretty much limited to taking the LP out of its cover and placing it carefully on the turntable platter.
Edits: 05/06/17
Sure.
Currently you have LMS on another computer...LMS is a sever only.
You can use PiCoreplayer as the renderer...ie it plays music and is connected to something.
Daphile is both a server as it has LMS and Squeezelite the renderer. You can use either or both as you wish
I use Daphile just as you use your separate computer with LMS only.
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
'Squeezelight is rendering or 'player' software used in Logitech devices?
PiCorePlayer is also software but is for use in the Pi?
Daphile is software that turns the Pi into both a player and/or a server?
Squeezelight is rendering or 'player' software used in Logitech devices?Yes. It is the software which allows general purpose computers to play content from an LMS (Logitech Media Server) based system.
PiCorePlayer is also software but is for use in the Pi?
Yes. It is software designed around the RPi platform that uses Squeezelite as the player software, but can alternately run LMS by itself or both.
Daphile is software that turns the Pi into both a player and/or a server?
Yes, it is just another variation of piCorePlayer in that regard. There are others.
As for me, I have enough hobbies and interests (especially in beautiful weather like today - just finished running a 10k and plan to play golf later) that I'm not really interested in trying half a dozen different applications which all do essentially the same thing.
It all depends what you want to achieve. FWIW, here is my selection criteria:
1. Since I maintain six music and/or video systems around the house, I want to centralize content so that I can enjoy it across any player without replication. Rip or download and store once. In the bad old days, I maintained large sets of CDRs for playback in other systems.
2. To that end, I also maintain a powerful workstation located in the office to house my financial data and pictures along with the music and video content which functions as common server accessible by all of them. This post originates from that unit which has a nice 2560 x 1440 monitor.
3. I prefer employing lightweight renderers (RPi/microRendu/Roku) where the internal memory is utilized as a large buffer. Local storage unnecessary.The number of available permutations in terms of how you can architect your personal data/music/video processing is truly staggering and potentially confusing.
I choose the one server - lots of clients approach. :)
Edits: 05/07/17
Did our usual Sunday bike ride in and about the hill of the Woodside area about 20 mi. south of the city.
But I'm an old retired guy with time on my hands and can't bike all of the waking hours anymore.
I had two specific goals (plus a third which I will mention briefly later) when first deciding on trying the Pi.
First was just to see if I could do it. Haven't done any DIY projects since I left Utah to return to the San Francisco ten years ago.
Second, I wanted to get my Laptop out of the 'easy chair' system in the living room. Plus I needed a way to access the music on my hard drive that is attached to a headless Mac Mini in my main system which is in a loft over the back half of the house. My wife mostly watches movies and TV there in the evening so I sit in the living room downstairs with a laptop, my DAC/headphone amp and stream music (QOBUZ, TIDAL, ETC.) but that means the laptop is tethered to the DAC with a USB cable and no easy way to access the music on the hard drive (not that important as I have ripped only a handful of CDs at this point).
I first tried the SONOS Connect. We have SONOS speaker in the kitchen that my wife likes to use while cooking and it streams QOBUZ and TIDAL and Spotify plus just about every radio station in the country. Sadly, the SONOS Connect sucks for sound quality. So much worse than the MacBook Air USB to my DAC/Headphone Amp that I can't stand to use it. Even on Spotify which is MP3.
The Pi (using PiCoreplayer) does everything I need. It streams QOBUZ, TIDAL and Spotify. It streams music from the hard drive of the Mac Mini in my main system as that's the computer I run LMS on. It sounds very nearly as good as the MacBook Air USB out to my DAC/Headphone Amp even on Hi Rez downloads. And if I get crazy and want to try uRendu or some other LMS compatible player later, it should just be plug and play.
And the user interface is 'usable' if not perfect. Not a nice as the user interface of QOBUZ and TIDAL OS-X players on the laptop, but a full sized iPad is good enough to find what I want to play. Serious music searches on TIDAL and QOBUZ can still be done on the MacBook Air or the iMac in the office.
Third thing?
Gives me a chance to TROLL the 'computer techie experts' who post here. ;-)
If you really want to get your DIY creds, you should look at John's Pi project that turns it into a Squeezebox Touch with a touch screen.
-Rod
is that it's small and 'headless', and can sit out of the way behind the DAC/Headphone amp where it's out of sight and out of mind.
An iPad works fine as a controller.
in fact it is so small and the Audio-GD Master 11 is so large perhaps the great DIY project would be to somehow mount it inside!
AND figure out how use the Audio-GD's superior linear 5V supply to run it!
nt
Cut-Throat
Mine hangs on a garage closet wall. :)
I'm planning on buying mine the HiFiBerry metal case and some small, Sorbothane footers.
Pic in gallery. Have since changed to optical connection and battery power.
I like the naked acrylic look. :)
And the Digi+ Standard model?
The onboard WiFi isn't particularly sensitive so I put an access point on the other side of the wall at the same loacation.I could have configured it as a bridge and use Ethernet, but I also have a nearby Canary security camera which also needs WiFi access. I'm quite pleased with the results. Since I use neither an I2S interface nor have any DSD content, I'm staying put with my older release of PcP.
Edits: 05/09/17
Maybe SC can lay down some knowledge....
We all hook our Dacs and other gear up to Renderers.
Think of a Renderer as a Waiter or Waitress, they don't cook the food, they only bring it to your table or in this case 'ears'.
Servers on the other hand put together your order and prepare it for the Renderer....like the cook in the back. You want to listen to Bob Marley? The Server finds it and gives it to the Renderer to bring to you. Much like a cook puts together your burger so a Waiter can bring it to your table.
PiCorePlayer = Renderer, it uses Squeeselite as the Renderer, but you can install the LMS as a server
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
IS what you are referring to as a 'renderer' the hardware or the software?
Is the Pi itself the 'renderer' (I hook it to my DAC) or is the PiCorePlayer the 'renderer' or is there 'squeezelite' code somewhere in PiCorePlayer that is the 'renderer' or makes the Pi a 'renderer'?
I know this may all sound trivial to you, but to us 'newbies' here, some who have been involved in hardware and software development for decades, understanding the terminology is important.
The Pi "hardware" can be thought of as the HUMAN....it can be anything.
The Software is the knowledge, it makes the Human a cook, waiter, etc.
Windows, Mac OSX, Linux are all software that is incorporated into hardware. Just like different forms of knowledge and thinking [software] can be put into a Human [hardware].
CD-Roms, SSD cards, Hard drives are all Hardware [we can touch...ie hard] that can hold software [things we can not touch...ie soft].
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
As someone who ran a company full of engineers and programmers engaged in the development of medical products, I have some small understanding of software and hardware.
I'm beginning to suspect that you DON'T, at least in reading your posts above regarding renderers, servers, LMS, PiCoreplayer, Squeezelite and the rest. When I asked for clarification, mostly regarding your use of terms, you didn't answer.
You instead fell back to posting simple definitions of hardware and software.
That's OK, I've got a fair bit of experience in that area as well. ;-)
As someone who ran a company full of engineers and programmers I'd suspect you would understand this simple stuff much easier.
Or were you just leading me along to see if I knew what you already have a keen understanding about...??I bet you know more about this stuff than anyone here...
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
Edits: 05/06/17
You must know that sentence might make NO SENSE AT ALL to someone not familiar with the Logitech Media platform. Which is fine because the person you directed your post to understood it.
And that's why I wasn't being at all critical when I admitted to being a bit confused and asked for clarification.
I have every confidence that I am capable of understanding this stuff. That's why I'm not afraid to raise my hand and ask questions when I don't.
I do appreciate that engineers and programmers are very bright people and I respect them a lot.
However, sometimes they forget that others may not share their depth of knowledge. That's why in my past life I found it best to minimize their contact with customers and ABSOLUTELY FORBID any contact with investors. ;-)
That's usually because they're more apt to tell the truth, and what you describe is a 'sales situation'..... And you know how to tell when a salesman is lying?....Right?
Cut-Throat
When he believes the engineer's promises.
Consumer product sales people are generally bad. I fully agree with Ivan on that fact. I was in high tech sales, marketing and management for years. I learned tow things: 1) You can't sell from an empty cart and 2) If you're going to sell something, pick a product that people want to buy.
A good sales person simply navigates a person to the correct product for whatever it is that they want to buy and has to be a knowledgeable and honest adviser. In high tech, my biggest problem was that we were always on the bleeding edge with new products. Engineers always gave us lists of features that would going to be in the product and delivery times that were optimistic. Inevitably, the delivery time doubled and the feature set was cut in half. Hence, if you trust the engineers, you may find yourself to be a liar down the way.
-Rod
"Hence, if you trust the engineers, you may find yourself to be a liar down the way."I think that depends on the engineer. If you're talking about engineers in product development that may be true. In my company, they don't speak to customers. They speak with company internal folks only, and usually through a product manager.
On the other hand customer facing engineers often need to keep the sales reps honest. After a sales rep stops speaking in a customer meeting, the customer turns and looks at the engineer. ;-) The customer facing engineer walks a thin line. Sometimes that thin line may piss off a sales rep possibly delaying a sale.
I was in that situation just two weeks ago. Customer is ready to cut a P.O. but the 'new version' is just on the horizon for next quarter.... and it's better and cheaper. I couldn't reveal details of this 'new version' but I mentioned it.
Fortunately in my company, the customer facing engineer does not work FOR the sales rep (but my sales reps are pretty honest guys). It's about a long term relationship as a trusted advisor vs a one time 'hit and run' sale.
Edits: 05/07/17
Like any generalization, the exceptions are all over the map.
I typically worked with smaller start up type companies. Having a technical background, I learned quickly which engineers and development folks were the stars and which ones I could trust and which that I couldn't. Usually, we didn't have the customer engineers, so if I had an engineer in a meeting, it was likely either the President of the company or the VP of Development.
But I hear you, a lot of sales people in tech know little more than the benefit list on the product brochure and have little understanding of the complexity and how the stuff really works. Of course the same is true for some engineers.
I remember a time when we were setting up a booth for a trade show and the engineer couldn't get the Micro VAX to boot up. He called back to HQ and got bounced around from one person to another and was getting nowhere. After a few hours of this, we were getting worried as to whether he could get this fixed which was critical and we were running out of time. Finally, my regional manager and I decided that we better get involved and find out exactly what was going on. It seemed like it was booting, but the terminal was getting gibberish. We checked the cabling and then thought, 'I wonder how the terminal is set up'. Sure enough, it was set up wrong. We changed it to 9,600 baud and bingo, fixed.
The engineer on site was a PhD, but had absolutely no common sense.
-Rod
Micro VAX? That's old stuff, probably from the same 1980's era as the LSI 11/73 Q-bus systems I worked on along with the DEC RT-11 OS. I'm seriously dating myself!Larger companies often employ (pre-sales) Systems Engineers who are teamed up with a few sales reps. We do the real selling via whiteboard, proof of concept, demos, benchmarks, etc. The sales reps handle the P.O.s and cash the commission checks. ;-) Actually, we have some pretty sharp sales reps, many of whom are former SE's. I prefer not dealing with sales issues like forecasts, giving up margin through reseller partners, etc.
I had my own 'baud rate moment' last year. ALL of our serial management ports on the ILOM service processors were historically set to 9600, 8-bit, No-parity, 1 stop bit.... forever and on everything we sold. And then it changed not long ago to 115,200 baud. I was setting up a demo and didn't even get gibberish on my screen so I swapped cables then started randomly trying different settings until it worked. The terminal in this case was just my laptop with PuTTY tools on it.... but I do recall the old VT-100 terminals from a long time ago.
Edits: 05/08/17
the engineers "taking investors off into the 'deep weeds'."
Not where you want your customers or investors to be.
Granted, when attempting to raise money, sales experience is probably more important than technical knowledge. But not for the reasons you might suspect.
Most people's experience with sales people are negative for a reason. Most sales people are BAD sales people. A mere 10% to 20% of most sales forces are responsible for more than half of all sales for most companies.
That means 80% to 90% of all sales people are not very good.
The most important skill required when dealing with investors is 'listening'. Investors have money to invest for a reason. They have been successful in their chosen field and have made a lot of it. They think they know a thing or two and they do. You will have little or no chance of pumping sand up their behinds.
But if you listen carefully, successful people will share enough of their thoughts for you to position your product/investment opportunity in a way that makes for an attractive investment.
As far as selling, the words of the late Zigg Zigler ring true to this day:
"You can have everything in life you want, if you will just help other people get what they want."
I don't know who said it, perhaps it's another Zigler:
"You have two ears and one mouth, use them in that proportion."
-Rod
My explanation or lack there of is not what I am talking about. I'd really expect someone with your background to 'get it' even without an explanation. I mean you are using this stuff everyday. You mean to say you didn't know how it worked or the difference between software and hardware.....for real?
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
Then I read you post and I wasn't so sure. ;-)
Strange response.
But anyway, a Renderer is a piece of hardware with software that renders music....ie Squeezelite.
That should not be confusing...I hope.
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
I'm not a tech writer nor have I ever played on on TV but...
This is the sentence that I found a bit confusing, being a newbie and not conversant on all of the terminology associated with the Logitech platform.
"Which means you can use it as only a server, LMS as only a renderer Squeeze or both."
Why on earth would anyone have a problem understanding a sentence like that?
Got me! ;-)
You can use Daphile as a server [LMS] -or- as a renderer [Squeezelite] or both.
You should be able to make sense of that....
Dynobots Audio - Music is the Bridge Between Heaven and Earth
Thanks!
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