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In Reply to: RE: That's what concerns me about Roon posted by Dave_K on February 28, 2017 at 13:22:59
Hi,
If you have your tags all set right, you can make roon behave as you like.
I'm more old-fashioned and tends to use folder structures and file names, as this is the lowest common denominator. Many of my older Rips are in Monkeys Audio and originated from EAC Beta 0.1...
Using folders and file names works with ANY format file, including DSD, ANY Playback software (even on my Android Phones and Tablets and all sorts of old streaming devices) I ever tried (except roon), works when I look at things in any file manager.
I guess as I have fairly good discipline in this assignment, I could get some bulk tag update software to re-tag everything based on file location and file name and then feed the result to Roon. But this again usually does not cover the whole raft of possible files and is a lot of work.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Follow Ups:
If you have a consistent logic attached to your filenames u can run bulk
conversions by converting filenames into tags.
BUT. I've neither seen anybody managing to come up with a consistent logic (without crippling the tag content), nor I've seen anybody who owns a 100% consistent collection.
What to do!?!?
First of all - get rid (store them somewhere else) of albums you'll never ever listen to.
My guess is that nobody would end up with a collection > 500 CDs.
From that point cleaning up tags becomes manageable.
I use puddletag under Linux to run the tagging job.
I also have my folder structures organised by genres.
Puddletag allows to apply very easily the same genre tag to all files underneath a folder.
So. You could do a "little" tweaking without spending too much time on it.
What I also run as a bulk job is - "remove all tags, but ....."
and that includes removing coverarts from files. That gets rid of a lot of junk.
Getting the coverarts in shape is a different project. It already starts with having the same filename for a coverart.
When it comes to file formats - I allow just a few file formats. Flac and MP3 and DSF. Everything else will be converted.
I do know from experience that people who told me to prefer handling by filenames, immediately switched to "tag" handling as soon as the tags were cleaned up.
All in all it takes me about 5 minutes per album. I think it's more then worth to spent that time. Spent just an hour a week and you'll be set "Once and Forever" next Christmas latest.
Enjoy.
The 80/20 rule seems to be applicable to many different situations...Music libraries are probably one of them too.
I'd be willing to bet 20% or less of peoples music collection gets 80% or more of the play time. I know I have lots of music that I not only don't listen too but will in all likelihood never listen to again.
I'd rather listen too and discover new music.
Either way, imo Roon can be too heavy handed when it comes to library management. In addition, being a software company they are in a loosing battle between constant code management [just to stay relevant] + constant code rework [updates and improvements] - [plateau of software sales + competition of free software] = no to little gains in revenue over time.
Hi,
> BUT. I've neither seen anybody managing to come up with
> a consistent logic (without crippling the tag content),
> nor I've seen anybody who owns a 100% consistent collection.
On the first, it works for me. I effectively ported the system I had for filing my Vinyl and my CD's back in the last Millennium, which in turn goes back to - oh well forever, probably my public library when I was 6 and could borrow LP's.
> First of all - get rid (store them somewhere else) of albums
> you'll never ever listen to.
If I do that I might as well -rm-rf them, because if I do that I WILL never listen to them.
> My guess is that nobody would end up with a collection > 500 CDs.
Used to have > 3,000 LP's, most are still in storage.
I know, I'm an anachrophile and latter day luddite. Now where is my hammer to smash up that newly fangled komputer maschine of yours?
> Getting the coverarts in shape is a different project. It
> already starts with having the same filename for a coverart.
Well, each Album is a separate Folder with a folder.jpg containing the cover art I want (in case I care about it) Double Albums naturally with suitable prefixes on the track number.
It works great for me. For example, using the Music Section in Media Portal I can choose to prefer folder.jpg for music and to browse the collection by "shares", read folder libraries... And it works browsing a network share from USB Audio Player Pro. And using any other player I have ever used.
> When it comes to file formats - I allow just a few file formats.
> Flac and MP3 and DSF. Everything else will be converted.
I leave the original where I can.
> All in all it takes me about 5 minutes per album. I think it's
> more then worth to spent that time. Spent just an hour a week
> and you'll be set "Once and Forever" next Christmas latest.
Or the week before armageddon.
My point is, I do not want to change my system, because it is nearly 20 Years old (on the computer side - overall more) and has grown organically over this time. And if a software that claims user friendliness as key goal and one of the reasons why we should pay subscription, then I expect it to be friendly to the three users called me, myself & I.
I know, selfish, luddite me.
Now where did I put that hammer again?
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
If you're 20 years into computer audio, you should know better.
You shouldn't expect anybody - no software, no family, no nothing,
- except you - to be able to cope with your "organic mess".
Enjoy your management by file.
Obviously you got stuck somewhere around somewhat 20 years ago.
Peace. ;)
Enjoy.
Hi,
Yet any software I ever used (and the number is legion) except roon does cope and well. So to me that makes roon the 'odd one out".
Heck, I use the same system for other digital media too and it works there fine as well...
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
This is a problem when you try to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes copying what works is the way to go....
Thanks.
One of the navigation trees I use is "By Folder", which is a nice fallback to have when I can't find something, usually because I missed a metadata error or made a mistake on rip.
It is nice to know that I can get Roon to stick to my metadata, at least for my own library (Tidal will still be a mess).
You could write a script to bulk update tags based on file name and path. Obviously, that will only set the few tags that can be inferred from your folder structure, but that will give you the same browsing ability you have now using players that ignore folder structure and pay attention to metadata only. Unfortunately, to really take advantage of metadata browsing, I think you have to either accept what the internet gives you or put the effort into a lot of manual tagging.
When I ripped my whole CD collection back in 2010, I used dBpoweramp with multiple internet metadata subscriptions. That saved me a ton of effort, although I still had to make a lot of corrections and enter a lot of data. Classical music was the biggest pain, because I tag album, composer, conductor, orchestra, label, soloist, year, genre, and period, and most of my classical CDs were either missing from online databases or the data was wrong.
What you need is a program that can use the combined wisdom of the various online metadata providers to retroactively tag already-ripped files. I don't know what that would be. The dBpoweramp ripper I used relies on recognizing the CD in order to do the metadata lookup.
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