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In Reply to: RE: No audiophile quality recordings in 10 years? posted by PAR on February 08, 2017 at 09:39:49
the engineers and producers - from the CD era to now regularly refuse to take advantage of the dynamic range capability of the recording format. Even with the highest bit rates and depth, when you take away 10-20dB of the dynamic range of "live" music as the produced outcome, our minds have to work hard to "imagine" the live event. Now when you perform the psychoacoustic DSP compression on this "flat" recording, it is easy to dismiss the quality of the event.
Take a well produced recording and stream it at 320k (on Spotify) and you get - even on my modest system - great imaging, realistic timbre rendering and a good listening experience. Sure, if I switch over to same recording on CD, SACD, or DVD-A (yes I have a few of those) you can notice a difference.
I do find a lot of audiophiles and audio enthusiast will dismiss the signal as "un-listenable" and in that singular intellectual act they make a self-fulfilling prophesy - losing confidence in the playback and destroying their ability to re-imaging the performance.
Similar condition happens in some blind testing - Anxiety effects the brain's ability to imagine!
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
Follow Ups:
...why would you? Other than the fact that it's been dead for over a decade.Take a well produced recording and stream it at 320k (on Spotify) and you get - even on my modest system - great imaging, realistic timbre rendering and a good listening experience. Sure, if I switch over to same recording on CD, SACD, or DVD-A (yes I have a few of those) you can notice a difference.
Not just "notice a difference" but notice a very obvious difference.
I've listened to Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, and Apple Music streaming at their highest bitrates in my car via direct digital connection into the car's audio system DAC. (No analog AUX input or Blutooth nonsense). I have also played 256kbps AAC downloads from Apple in this same car setup. While they are certainly listenable and even enjoyable, there is no denying that a lossless CD rip (ALAC, FLAC) or uncompressed (WAV, AIFF) sound significantly better to me.
I've done the same in my home audio setup. The compressed streaming content is definitely missing detail 'clarity' especially in the lower bass region and up top in the treble, and the presentation is less dynamic.
So, unless I'm just listening to background music and want some 'sound' in the car or room, I will always go for my own lossless CD rips or higher res downloads vs these streaming services. It nags at me knowing that I can have so much better with my own rips that I rarely stream.
"I do find a lot of audiophiles and audio enthusiast will dismiss the signal as "un-listenable" and in that singular intellectual act they make a self-fulfilling prophesy - losing confidence in the playback and destroying..."
I would argue that it's more than just 'self-fulfilling prophesy' when one has experienced and can always notice the quality gap.
I use streaming services mostly for music discovery and background music.
I have yet to try Tidal which may be on par or very close in quality to my own CD rips.
Edits: 02/10/17
LOL, I was watching an NBA game on hardwood Classics (1992 Allstar?)
And I couldn't believe how grainy the picture was. Then I realised I just 7 feet from a 55" TV screen (Mitsu Rear projection - cerca 2004) instead of the 27" Sony I would have viewing it on live back then...
Still once I got into the action I wasn't really noticing the poor resolution...
You said "I use streaming services mostly for music discovery and background music."
This is the great application of Pandora and Spotify - replacing the FM Jazz and AOR channel I listened to in the 70's - 80's.
I also use these though to assess the recordings quality - if I like it is goes into a playlist!
Almost anyone that is trained can double bind test the difference of <320kbs MP3 versus High res formats - but without the comparison I'm pretty comfortable enjoying the performances
What I've been doing (very slowly) with my CD's and vinyl transfers to my Audio Server, is "Remastering" as well as cleaning it up. Talk about noticable... adding Dynamics (like my old 3BX unit but better), EQ when needed, Noise Shaping, and even a bit of stereo imaging adjustment makes a recording just for me! (I use the the Izotope suite) I'm typically gaining 5-10dB on almost everything and 15dB on transients (plucks and whacks!)
It makes my recordings a lot quieter (at the same volume knob setting), but when a live snare rim hit has a 35-40 dB crest factor, and the best you see on most CD's and LP's is maybe 20dB - it does seem more real - and makes me glad my amp can pass 1000W peaks!
After all that work, I'm not saving these in lossy formats.
thanks for your comments!
"The hardest thing of all is to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat" - Confucius
I -think- we're on about the same page.
I can and do enjoy 320kbps streaming. I'm not one of those whiner 'audiophools' who call it unlistenable, fatiguing, or "it hurts my ears". Whah! I enjoy the music.
But even w/o doing a side-by-side AB test, I am familiar enough with my lossless or uncompressed CD tracks that I can tell when I'm hearing a 320kbps stream.
I do this mostly in the car. The iPhone has a handful of streaming apps for Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, and Apple Music. I'll launch one for the music variety on a long drive but when I hear a track that I have ripped from a CD, I'll switch to my CD rip and it is plainly clear that the rip is superior to the stream. In this setup, the iPhone in my car is acting as a transport only with it's internal DAC and analog stage are completely bypassed as the signal is sent digitally via the Lightning connector into the car's DAC.
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