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Hello !
i am looking for a firewire dac.
I would like to buy an Apogee Duet even if I would prefer a unit with balanced outs (if i am not wrong the Duet has only balanced ins).
Nevertheless i am extremely interested to know opinions on its sound.
I have a very good opportunity to buy it.
What would be a nice sounding entry level(i.e. Apogee Duet level) but with balanced out ?
I am particularly interested in old but good sounding models and ONLY to the dac section sound quality (maybe also a little to the headphone out).
Thanks in advance for any kind suggestions.
Regards,
beppe
Edits: 10/01/13 10/01/13Follow Ups:
Hi beppe61,
If you are looking for older but good souding entry level firewire dac’s, than you should have a close look at the Focusrite Saffire LE.
In the entry level category the Saffire LE is highly regarded for it’s price/performance ratio on sound quality.
Just a Weiss also Focusrite uses the DICE-chip technology (licensed from TC Electronics) for jitter reduction on the firewire connection.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul06/articles/saffire.htm
Mentioning TC Electronic:
Also have a good look/listen too the TC Electronic Konnekt series.
All products in the Konnekt series have very good price/performance ratio on sound quality.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct08/articles/desktopkonnekt6.htm
I use this unit my self in a second system
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may07/articles/konnekt24d.htm
Pristine (!) sound quality at a budget comes from the Steinberg MR816X.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov08/articles/steinbergmr816csx.htm
I know this unit very well.
It rivals the Lavry Black DA10 and the older Benchmark DAC1 but at half the price.
The Apogee Mini-DAC is also mentioned in this thread.
Here’s a review:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan09/articles/daconverters.htm
As with all Firewire connections:
be sure that your computer uses a Texas Instrument Firewire chip.
Only Texas Instruments firewire chips guarantee trouble free operation.
(but Apple uses Texas Instruments chips by default for firewire. So you are not in danger)
Mark
Server 2012 + foobar > ESI Juli@ > Van den Hul Optocoupler > Lavry Black DA10 > Vovox Sonorus Direct S > Klein & Hummel O300
Good morning Mark,
sorry for the belated reply i was out of town
Thank you very much indeed for your advice
I have really a great opinion of Focusrite brand after having appreciate the little but nice VRM box. I like the sound very much indeed
So this brand is very high on my list expecially after you recommendation.
I have also found the Steinberg MR816X
Is it really so superior to a entry level Focusrite ?
I could do some sacrifice for something that could very well be definitive, so to speak
Thank you sincerely again
Kind regards
beppe
Edits: 10/03/13
Hi Beppe,
You are looking for old(er) but good sounding firewire converters and also you state, you have very good opportunity too buy an Apogee Duet. However the Duet uses an USB interface.
The Duet ($ 649,-) is succeeded by the Duet2 ($ 595,-). Apogee themselves write on there website that the new Duet2 has beter sound quality. While I haven’t listened too their Duet or listened too their Duet2, I tend too believe what Apogee writes on their website.
I listened (extensively) too both their Symphony I/O and Quartet. Both the Symphony I/O and the Quartet have a much (!) better price/performance ratio (mind the: ‘ratio’), than previous Apogee products.
Moreover this is a general trend I see with almost all serious Pro AD/DA converter manufacturers. In recent years Sound Quality coming from newly released AD/DA converters has MUCH improved, while at the same time prices where (much) lower. Last 5 years the price/performance ratio on Sound Quality coming from Pro AD/DA-converters roughly changed from 1/1 to ½.
So, it’s only a very good opportunity too buy a first generation Duet, if that first generation Duet is offered too you a very low price level (!). This because the new Duet2 is has a much better price/performance ratio on sound quality.
The Steinberg MR816X was an immediate hit at the gearsluts forum. Same as on every forum it can be very hard too distinguish between forum members who are real knowledgeable and the ones who just produce “bla bla”, the knowledgeable inmates on the gearslutz forum praised the Steinberg MR816X on it’s sound quality. After SoundonSound also praised it’s sound quality, a friend of mine went out for a listening session and bought it immediately (and mind you: he heard A LOT AD/DA converters).
So now I hear the Steinberg MR816X at regular intervals. It indeed has a damn good price/performance ratio.
But as always: make a short list and listen before you buy.
Thank you very much again !
Kind regards,
beppe
RME and Metric Halo.
Probably the most popular choices in their price range amongst pros.
Love my ULN-2, which I have at home now, using it just as a DAC. It's kindaof a shame, as its mic pre's are pretty wonderful, and they almost never get used.
WW
New Orthophonic High Fidelity
Didn’t mis them.
Hi b.l.zeebub,
beppe61 was looking for nice sounding ENTRY LEVEL firewire converters with balanced out.
In my opinion RME produces very good all round quality products and is famous for very good all round quality products like: features, number of channels, trouble free drivers and software, ect. But I don’t think RME is famous for delivering an exceptional price/performance ratio in terms of sound quality (sound per pound).
I stretched my recommendation a too the Steinberg MR816X (around 600 euro’s). That’s not entry level any more, but I did this because this unit has an unmatched and exceptional price/performance ratio on sound quality, never seen before. Hearing is believing.
Metric Halo isn’t an entry level unit. Depending on it’s configuration, it’s around 3000 plus euro’s. At this price level one should also listen too the Prism Orpheus. Both sound identical too me (I can’t keep them apart in listening sessions). Also at this price level one should listen too Weiss and the Apogee Symphony IO. May bee also to Universal Audio units.
Right now (anno 2012/2013) I prefer the Apogee Symphony IO at this price level.
At the mid-level price units: the Apogee Quartet (USB) is my favorite right now.
But I haven't auditioned the new Prism Lyra yet (also USB)
Mark
A friend of mine had the older style Apogee Duet used as a DAC and ADC via Firewire. It was a pretty nice sounding setup. I owned the Apogee Mini-DAC for a couple years and was very pleased with it's performance, but it's not pretty! The Mini-DAC came with Firewire and I believe USB was an option. They are no longer made but sometimes show up on Audiogon. They cost about $900 new.
Apogee Mini-DAC
Unfortunately is much less common of the duet.
I believe they sold a lot of Duet and now owners are upgrading to something else.
Nevertheless i wonder if the sonic gap between the Mini and the Duet is remarkable (i am not that picky ... i like also what i read about the musical and clean sound of the duet).
I also heard of issue like drivers not compatible with newer versions of apple's OS.
I would load a older one in case.
The pc will be dedicated to audio video only.
Thank you very much again,
Kind regards,
beppe
I heard both the Duet and the Mini-DAC but not in the same system. I don't recall hearing any faults with the Duett. It sounded very nice in my friends setup. He eventually upgraded to the Prism Orpheus DAC/ADC at $4500 mostly for transferring his vinyl to digital files.
He mentions the Duet, Rosetta, and Orpheus here:
http://10audio.com/prism_orpheus.htm
.
nt
my blog: http://carsmusicandnature.blogspot.com/
I use the Weiss DAC 202 using Firewire from a Mac Mini and Pure Music - Love it!!
RayBan
Thanks for the reply and I have no doubts about the quality of Weiss digital equipment of course.
But this is a little too high end for me.
I would like to start with a nice entry level dac only to verify if there are any differences with an entry level usb dac.
I was looking also to brand like Focusrite, Echo, M-Audio et similia.
Regards,
bg
Edits: 10/01/13
Of those you mention I recommend Echo Audio.
Drivers are rock solid and the sound quality is excellent.
Years ago some one posted audio clips (24/96, no mp3) on a pro site of two cheap convertors and the Apogee Rosetta 800. By the time the author revealed which clip was made using which convertor it was a draw between Echo Audio AF12 and the Apogee with the other cheap one (ART I think it was) clearly inferior. The AF12 costs less than a tenth of the Apogee.
I have tried to find the clips recently but sadly the entire site has ceased to exist.
Yes. This is the price range i intended.
I will look seriously for this model.
I like extremely the pro but clean appearance ... very nice indeed.
Any other dac from the same Echo Audio brand also recommendable ?
Thanks a lot and kind regards
beppe
Edits: 10/01/13
There were 2, 4 and 8 channel ones which included microphone pre amps on their inputs but the Echo site now only lists the AF12.
Hi ! is the Echo - Audiofire 4 on the same sonic level ?
i do not have a recording studio ... i am just looking for a nice sounding firewire dac
And this one should have also balanced outs, that i quite like as an option
Thanks a lot again
Best regards,
beppe
I think it is very similar.
AFAIK the only difference is that software-wise it doesn't go up to 192k and its got mic pres.
Sorry for the belated reply but i have been away for the job
No hi-rez here ... and no mics either
I am focusing the dac section but i am a little disoriented by the huge choice of nice equipment and different approach (i.e. firewire, usb .. usb to spdif converter)
Thanks a lot for the very valuable advice
kind regards
beppe
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