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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 13:31:58
Hello, everybody! This is not the Big tweak, promised for nearest time, but these settings may bring Your system to sound better
1. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management. Create DWORD IoPageLockLimit (REG_DWORD): 1000 is for 4096 hex - (This is real AWE working parameter). You can set the value for 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000 - the one I use now is 10000
2. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Executive Find there AdditionalCriticalWorkerThreads set the value to 4
3 HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem Create there dword DontVerifyRandomDrivers set value to 1
Reboot, listen to some music, please.
Serge.
Edits: 01/14/12 01/14/12Follow Ups:
It is 753KB rather than 2.03MB for xp sp2's version. It works great, at least in my mini-xp installation From observing task manager processes it seems to reduce the overall amount of RAM used more than that so perhaps it calls on fewer functions while still playing beautifully. Those adept with process explorer and the like can determine this. The IoPageLockLimit increase should now be functional. I will proceed to do a sound comparison. I hope others do too.
I am using that and was when I installed the earlier ntoskrnl.exe. Perhaps not using this is the cause of the puzzling difficultes for others when I had no problem at all. I have not slimmed my mini-xp a la either Serge but have done all other cics mods, tweaks, boot.ini changes, etc.
Steppe seems to have made the substituion: what version of xp were you using, Serge, and in what state of tinkering?
using this substitution my internet connection went down. Well, from the start.
1. The kernel manipulation is only one part and THE ABSOLUTELY LAST part of the big tweak that is coming. It is exactly this and one more thing that remain unstable.
2. You can use another kernel. Mine is named neptune.exe, it's a w2k kernel from a no sp version of w2kxp pro. To use it one has to copy it into system32 folder, reshack it and rename, next open your boot ini and type /KERNEL=neptune.exe (or whatever name). It will substitute ntoskrnl.exe for ntldr - the small os loader program which sits in the root directory, e.g. C:\
This substitution is possible as a permanent one and even allows you to completely remove the file ntoskrnl.exe, it will even produce2 entries in the registry system hive. Smth funny, like JustWorking neptune.exe and modify the registry entry cotrolset001-control
However, THERE IS NO NEED TO DO IT. This substitution was made obsolete soon after Grant expressed his interest. Matter is, there is another kernel file, that we don't pay attention to - ntkrnlpa.exe - it's a kernel, that's loaded into memory but not used unless you have specify it with /3GB switch in boot ini and /pae setting. Now whenever we restart our cmp machines, BOTH kernels are in memory, though one is passive. I have made countless takes on deleting the second kernel - the result IS GREAT, but it will kill the machine on the next start up with BLACK screen of death. Problem is that w2k kernel is insufficient alone. while xp ntoskernl.exe IS SUFFICIENT. Moreover, it sounds better alone than a lighter w2k kernel+ mtkrnlpa.exe. So the best thing to do is AFTER ALL THE TWEAKING AND WITHOUT EXPLORER to add /nopae and /mimint to your boot ini and then remove ntkrnlpa.exe. This leaves us with our native xp kernel ALONE. It doesn't only sits well in its own place it is self sufficient and sings better that w2k+ntkrnlpa, due to its better memory-cpu routine. The substitute w2k kernek is lighter and it ALONE sings smoother, but it is a little bit dull in the highs. The native eats more memory, but is vivid without harshness and more dynamic. So, thanks to Grant for his interest and sorry for this late warning. So, kernel is a component itself.
Serge
P.S. If You managed to roast your registry with this substitution, you only have to replace it, delete all logs, recopy all native kernel files from installation disks (as there is a timestamp on them) and reboot.
and it was no big deal to get rid of it.
Has not been on my list of files for a long time.
I thought this was part of the standard deletions though I have not gone back to see.
Had no problems deleting it.
Maybe this is why I have been so pleased with the sound I am hearing?
I have not renamed ntoskrnl so maybe that is why I have not seen anything like what you wrote in my registry.
deleted it and are living good with native kernel, better don't attempt to substitute. It may work for as long as the system is on. Once you reboot, you get a black, not blue screen and it will ask you to replace the wrong kernel. As for the shell, try first to substitute common controls+ common dialogs + shell lightweightapi. Don' remember their names correctly, and after that - the big shell.
Serge
I have tried in every way (which I thought I had already told you) to insert that, even going back to the original installation to see if it would be accepted then.
I am starting to think since it seems impossible, to not worry about it.
Maybe some new inspiration will strike and I will see a way.
Waiting, impatiently, to see the new regimen.
Unlike Ted I do not say take your time! Let us try and see what happens.
according to your method and hives. default is like yours 16 kb, sowtware - only 80, but mine is different than yours because of lynx. With system, I was doing and laughing - there are man even madder than me (in the best sense of the word). Really, what You deleted, I would never even dare to touch... I deleted everything and compacted. Was happy, as my windows folder with unhacked yet fonts and system became only 19,6 mb in size - it is just as I hoped for. Unfortunately, it didn't boot - got a bsod, but I think I know why - ennums and especially acpi devices. Looks like I managed to delete a coprocessor or motherboard - I was in a hurry. Will try to this weekend. As for the big one, You and others already know part of it - it's file substitutions from w2k and xphome, yes, also from xp home. The list of files and THE ORDER of things will be posted.
Serge.
and nothing happens.
I kept getting confused with one of those things - kept deleting it!
Thanks to SNAPSHOT I was able to recover. I find nothing wrong with re-writing a previous "version" - are you saying you do?
With the H55 board I was able to get rid of everything ROOT everywhere.
ENUM was down to nothing except the ROOT entry - all "beneath" it was gone.
The H61 board for some reason will not allow as large a deletion.
I hope I sent you the H55 version - did it say GRANT in the title? If it did that was the H55 version.
I made MANY deletions one at a time. Got lots of exercise going up and downstairs to the other computer.
Now to look at your post.
Steppe seems to have made the substitution . . .
Having to hand a copy of Win2K from way back when, I extracted the file and got it to run successfully on my main cMP2 rig. I even managed to "Res Hack" it from 1.7 to 1.5 MB (compared to 2 MB for the "hacked" Pro version).
My system is sounding better than it ever has though how much of that is down to the different version of ntoskrnl.exe I cannot say (as I've been making other changes).
But, Alas!, another inmate couldn't get his setup to boot using the same file. IOW, the problem is not necessarily version-specific.
Damn!
Dave
I do not think minlogon has anything to do with it since I always have implemented minlogon.
Maybe the fact that your OS has what is required for networking has left enough "in" for the change to be made?
Did you have an old install disk laying about or is there somewhere one can go?
I had tried, unsuccessfully, a week or so back to make this substitution. Maybe the version you are using works and others do not.
Any direction would be appreciated/
Hi Riboge?
What is the trick you used?
It won't work when I substitute:
The ntoskernell which is in mini-xp:
NT Kernel & system
5.1.2600.2622
14-11-2005
2,07 MB
with the one I extracted from a W2K disk:
NT Kernel & system
5.00.2195.1
7-12-1999
1,56 MB
At boot up I get a message it is missing DLL's too startup correctly.
(I disabled Win file protection)
Any idea's why it may not work in my setup?
Mark
cMP2 PC > ESI Juli@ > Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII > Lavry Black DA10 > XLR Mogami Gold > Klein & Hummel O300
I extracted ntoskrnl.ex_ from an .iso of Windows 2000 Pro (no sp). This was dated 9/3/02 and is 967KB in properties, no version number given. Is this in fact the whole of "NT Kernel & system"? I don't know. I simply put this as .exe in \system32\ in place of the ntoskrnl.exe that was there, which is just like the one you have. There was no problem. The one you tried to substitute is larger and the same version steppe said he used. You are likelier than me to be able to explain what is happening.
Hi Riboge,
Thank you for your quick repsonce.
Could check which w2k version you use?
Version info is available with:
right click on ntoskrnl.exe > properties > version > file version.
Mark
cMP2 PC > ESI Juli@ > Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII > Lavry Black DA10 > XLR Mogami Gold > Klein & Hummel O300
Perhaps you missed that I said there was no version number given in properties. I did give wrong details, though, which were for the ntoskrnl.exe in xp home which I considered substituting but didn't. The correct details are that the file(an archive) is 744KB (unpacked 1,640KB) and is dated 12/7/99, still after the date of the version you used by 5 mo. Perhaps the difference is that mine came from a pro version?
Hi Riboge,
Thank you for the info.
My w2k version is pakked 744 kB
and unpakked 1603 kB.
May be other inmates can shed some light on it, why simply subtituting in the ntoskrnl.exe in my mini-xp setup with a w2k-version won't work.
Thank you for responce.
Mark
cMP2 PC > ESI Juli@ > Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII > Lavry Black DA10 > XLR Mogami Gold > Klein & Hummel O300
Where did you get the win2k ntoskrnl.exe?
"1000 is for 4096 hex" is hard to parse. Do you mean 1000 in hex equals 4096 decimal, or 1000=4096 hex? You gave a screenshot in which you used 10000 hex which is 65536 decimal. What is the meaning of that number? One might suppose it means 65.536 Kb, but that seems all wrong here. 65MB would also not seem suitable.
In any case, using 10000 as you did, I experienced none of the softness theo reports and perhaps some benefit in liveliness and detail. This is obscured by my making other changes concurrently in refining my try out of mini-xp. This is really sounding wonderful, better I think with just tweaks and fishies than xp home with all tweaks, fishies and steppes too. It is the smallest installation I have since I have not gone the xp lite route (?yet).
Is widely known as one of the most obscure tweaks.
it started probably with NT and Windows 2000 REALLY benefits from it, it's not only attested by me, as I use in my cmp a w2k KERNEL, but by many people on the net. It is used for securing ram solely for i/o operations. BTW, I think the values are in bytes, so that 1000 stands for 4 kbyte - the standard page size in w2k and xp and 7 for x86 processors. In w2k retail registry there was, in session manager, an additional entry, but it was removed from w2k sp1 and onward. Many people tried to detect the effect of this tweak on xp machines, they attest that the xp kernel understands this command but... and then all the info is deleted by MS. I am now using the value 20000 - the effect is even better, and the mouse movement is smooth like upon polished glass covered with oil, if I describe it not too dramatic. Try for yourself, IT WON"T HARM. As for additional critical worker threads, you cannot add more than 16!
Serge.
Hi Serge
You've been holding out on us - using a different "ntoskrnl.exe" ! Which version is it ? I ask because ever since Win2K-RTM, all Windows kernels have not recognized the IoPageLockLimit parameter. This can be (almost conclusively) verified by running the Sysinternals utility "strings.exe" and searching for the keyname in the text output file.
** see -> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897439 to download strings.exe **
This string search technique is referenced here -> http://www.wxpnews.com/archives/wxpnews-039-20020820.htm.
Read the section called Debunking the "Speed Up your Windows XP Box with IRQ Prioritization" Myth, (about half way down the page). Interestingly, Jamie mentions the "IoPageLockLimit Hack" in bullet point three:
The same "strings" output will show that another long-written-about registry hack, IoPageLockLimit, is also missing in action. This one at least used to be there, in Win2K RTM and earlier; in Win2K SP1 they kept the mechanism but the limit was then spec'd by a new value, IoPageLockPercentage; in Win2K SP2 and later they dropped the whole thing.
There is also a thread on MSFN Forum discussing this issue - a concise summary is found in the last post -> http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/25684-registry-myths-1-iopagelocklimit/page868768#entry868768.
Sooooo... I wonder which Win2K edition your kernel file came from ? This might explain the reports of other cMP-Slimmers, with regard to using IoPageLockLimit.
I must hasten to add: THANK YOU Serge, for your tireless efforts to squeeze the most out of the cMP^2 concept!
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
I'm ok with the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\FileSystem Create there dword DontVerifyRandomDrivers set value to 1
tweak. The other 2 seem to excessively soften my sonics. When I look up the
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management. Create DWORD IoPageLockLimit (REG_DWORD): 1000 is for 4096 hex - (This is real AWE working parameter). You can set the value for 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000 - the one I use now is 10000
tweak some links are unclear whether to input the value in megabytes or bytes. So I'm not sdure what it does. One post believes that the 10000 value is equivalent to the default value of 512 k . So very unclear. The other tweak on adding critical thread workers just messes my system up sonically.
Who knows the difference in perception (I believe you Serge that it is a positive in your system) might be in systems, computer h/w or whatever. But we're getting down to the short strokes with a 25 mb windows where everything does impact the sound one way or the other.
Here is my registry.Thanks Rick for schooling me yet again.
Edits: 01/16/12 01/16/12
This is 1st time that a Steppe tweak went wrong for me sonically. I have gone back and forth and conclude that I prefer 'not doing this tweak'. At 1st I did not do the IoPageLockLimit tweak but did do the other 2 tweaks. These made my system softer, pleasant but softer and not as dynamic. So after 2 days of listening I decided to try the IoPageLockLimit tweak, 1st @ 2000 then 4000, 6000 and finally @ 8000. This brought back some immediacy but it still did not sound right. So I went back to 'none of these tweaks' and prefer it. What's troubling also is when I compare my registry to Steppe's as shown I am different in many ways not all but many. For example my Systempages is something like 30000 (how do you do those screen shots) not zero, PhysicalAddressExtension was 0 not 1 (aren't we using nopae in the boot.ini file anymore). Anyway maybe these other items is the difference, maybe its new 32nm hardware versus my 45nm stuff. Believe me I did not knowingly change any of these items.
are easy.
I recently learned how to do it.
First press the PRINT SCREEN button.
Open up PAINT (START/ALL PROGRAMS/ACCESSORIES/PAINT
EDIT/ Paste
and there is the screen you "printed".
Save it with any name you like.
I will have to go back and forth a few times on the new tweak though so far I like it.
/
I cannot remember what the setting in:
2. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Executive Find there AdditionalCriticalWorkerThreads set the value to 4
was before.
I am hoping returning to how it was will get the drivers back.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
I was playing with BIOS settings and everything came up as if there was nothing (???!!!) wrong with the BIOS.
I tried to play something and it said drivers would not load.
I had never had this experience with BIOS settings previously so I blamed it on the TWEAK.
The H61 board does some interesting things compared to H55. That one would either work or not. This one will go into cMP but will not function.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea mea culpa ...
I should have know better.
I see there were a few other changes I must have missed.
I felt sure there were!
Additional critical worker threads concerns cpu, not drivers, Rick. The allowed values are up to 16!
You could have lost juli@ drivers when performing deletions in ENUM, I had had the same problem with Lynx before.
Ted and other inmates! Setting lock pages size starts from 1000, go to 2000, 4000 or 10000. I have a 1gb stick. I used 1000, 2000 and went for 10000. Works perfectly. More than 24 hours, with fresh logs created. Several reboot. Random and consecutive.
Serge.
Rick! it should have no direct effect on driver, only on memory mapping. default value as Ted is right to say is 0, see that it's not the command in another tweak - to disable unknown driver check - this command prevents windows from constantly polling drivers to the add-on cards like lynx and juli@.
I have been listening with this settings and rebooting even after registry (software) complete slimming several times.
To Ted, try a smaller value like 1000, then go to 2000, to 4000 see for yourself. I think 10 000 stands for page 65 kilobytes. I. as You know use a 1gb stick.
Serge.
Serge in this tweak
1. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management. Create DWORD IoPageLockLimit (REG_DWORD): 1000 is for 4096 hex - (This is real AWE working parameter). You can set the value for 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000 - the one I use now is 10000
Does it depend on memory size? I use a 256 ram sshould I still use 10000?
More immediacy. Another step in transparency.
Cymbals have more character.
Those are my immediate first impressions.
Are these in conjunction with your earlier recommendations for memory or do these replace those?
a screenshot of the Memory Management Screen would be helpful.
here it is. Don't remember if anything's done here. But YES IN ADDITION. I am making deletions now according to your hive. Stuck with CLSID - Lynx is apparently under a different number, sh*t!
Have to read all this heap of entries!!!
Its pretty easy though.
It will still be a good guide. Not too hard to find the LYNX entries.
AMAZING amount of junk there.
There is no question that all credit for the CLSID files goes to Serge Mihaylov. All of my registry deletions were both inspired and guided by his work.
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