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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 13:31:58
I got no response posting under Jack's thread so...Seeing what can be achieved without it, I am doubting that trimming per se is worth it. Once you have done all cics optimizations including minlogon, boot.ini tweaks and fishy tweaks to xp home cMP you end up with a much more natural, rich and balanced output with all the great detail, soundstage and localization of instruments that trimming xp pro brought while maintaining many convenient functions with no seeming sacrifice to sq. At least, that's how it is seeming to me after a couple days of playing a xp home cMP.
Do others agree? Or are there those who have trimmed xp home and achieved even better sound, that is, better without the imbalances,'thinning' and somewhat artificial 'air' of the highly reduced xp pro setups? Or are there those who prefer the sound of the reduced xp pro?
Follow Ups:
I can supply the files to anybody that wants them. And all should know (I can now say) that it was Rickminnis that came up with this. It is brilliant.
Mihaylov's inspirational registry screenshot gave me what I needed to know where to begin this project. That is when the project began
Few, if any, will be able to use them as is. I offered them to Ted and others on Jack Wong's XP Home reg list as an example of what a minimal registry would look like after seeing how huge the XP Home registry was and as a guide to what can be deleted and the machine still work and to my ears work quite well.
One can start with either the Pro or the Home registry and end up in the same place. My suspicion is that the HOME version sounded better just because it was simpler. Not as simple as my minimal nLite registry but vastly less complicated than a standard XP Pro install. I never inserted the HOME registry into my machine.
There is lots of audio stuff left in even after STEPPE's deletions. Vast amounts of video stuff and what I call multiple entries - you will see the same thing listed numerous times which would make sense for a computer used for multiple tasks but with our (assumed) single purpose machines these do nothing but add confusion to the sound.
I started deleting these items towards the end of my trials and errors and it was if the best was saved for last.
USB has been completely eliminated since the PS/2 input is less intrusive (thanks again to Grant for making the case for this). ControlSet2 is as small as I(or you)are allowed to make it. There is a bare minimum that WINDOWS will not let go. There is a way to get rid of it all but at this point there is no installing SW required to do this into my machine. Something to try with my next install.
I can tell you Serge/Steppe has not stopped his explorations and there is much excitement coming from him in the next few weeks.
Just when you think it is DONE ...
thank you for reminding me. Of course Mihaylov is a pioneer on registry stuff.
you said
'I worked on registry slimming in my xp pro cMP but didn't get too too far before giving up going further due to too many bsods. Might you have a list of items that can be deleted, or can you send a copy of your software and system hives for me to explore and work from? My setup is clearly different enough that I could never use them directly but only as a guide.Also, do you or Mihaylov know for a fact that the differences between home and pro are trimmable, that is, that they are only re additional items in pro and not ever difference in the items themselves like different versions of essential dlls, drivers, etc, or contents of untrimmable registry '
Maybe you are already there. Remember as of a week ago I did no registry trimming...just the tweaks. If you used n-lite or some registry defragger or cleaner you may already be there.
Edits: 01/06/12 01/06/12
Cant do the registry (its proprietary) but the system32 files are what others have reported (Steppe, Rick, Mihaylov theob).
Prprietary means given to me by another unidentified inmate who wishes anonymity.
...like Mihaylov says if you skinny it down on xp home or you start with xp pro once you get down to the bare min windows including registry you are there. Maybe it was easier for you with xp home and yes that is certainly worth something. If I was starting a new I would take your route with n-lite. In reality in all honesty, if I was starting anew I would never take this journey. I had a steep learning curve as an audiophile who knew zero about computers just launching cmp/cplay. Hell I didnt know what a driver was let alone all this stuff regarding the registry. And I believe a lot of 'would be computer audiophiles' not yet into it will not take the journey because its too difficult. And that would be a shame. This stuff blows everything away that I have heard as a front end. Not arguing just expressing a different perspective.
Have you slimmed down your registry? With my recent slimming including this am my windows folder is now down to 32 mb.
I worked on registry slimming in my xp pro cMP but didn't get too too far before giving up going further due to too many bsods. Might you have a list of items that can be deleted, or can you send a copy of your software and system hives for me to explore and work from? My setup is clearly different enough that I could never use them directly but only as a guide.
Also, do you or Mihaylov know for a fact that the differences between home and pro are trimmable, that is, that they are only re additional items in pro and not ever difference in the items themselves like different versions of essential dlls, drivers, etc, or contents of untrimmable registry keys?
I have not xp home so I can not to say anything for a fact. But I know for a fact that versions of some .dll and .sys are the same in xp pro and xp embedded ;).
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/
My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live
I have never regreted any of the Steppes. Yes some were better than others but as Steppe mentions after Steppe 16 it was all good. The fish tweaks, resource hacker stuff plus watchdog et al even better. But where it really enterred the sacred zone for me was when I started registry slimming. About a week ago my registry was 16 mb. I, through the invaluable help of an anonymous inmate, have slimmed this to about 7 mb. The results are simply staggering. I know I have further to go and will do it but its a long and painful process, lots of no boots. Others have reached simply mind blowing levels of registry size and while this is not goal in and of itself it is a rough indicator. For me the biggest gains were from eliminating unused sevices entries and software stuff in the registry. I really thought that the tweaking was done but no it goes on. The open source nature of cplay/cmp is the only way this could have been accomplished. I just wish cics could hear his creations fully tweaked as Steppe, Mihaylov, Mario, and others have shown the way.
You don't say if this refers to use of xp home with all these trims. I have done all save your latest registry radical trimming with xp pro and liked the results but prefer xp home with boot.ini tweaks, reduced shell32.dll and fishys without trimming.
tweakings on XP home, truly, I am somewhat tired with all this long search in a away, but I can say from my own experience that really good and balanced sound comes to you at the end of part 15,, then after part 18, then at the end of part 22+ fishies, that is now. I don't think it's artificial, I rather prefer to call closer to studio reality, though it is by no means an "audiophile"-smooth or comforting. I don't know what music you are listening to, but if you put the following cds on your player, you will immediately hear what you have achieved with tweaking
Deep Purple 1970 In Rock
Rainbow 1978 Long Live Rock'n'Roll
Ozzy Osbourne - Ozzmozis
Serge.
BTW I am using several xp-home files in my setup...
I have been using Aspire One as the music server ever since I started the cMP2 project. Since XP Home came with the netbook, I have no choice but be a XP Home user since day one. I have never had the opportunity to have a XP Pro setup to compare with XP Home side by side on my system, but have always been extremely satisfied with the performance of cMP/cPlay on XP Home. In fact, I am more than satisfied with it, the current implementation way surpassed anything I could have expected and I considered it to be the best source I have ever achieved in my long hifi journey.
I do not go all the way in my Windows trimming. I stopped at steppe 4 + jolida 2. I had ventured way up to steppe 8 but found the sound thin with artificial high and had to retract back to steppe 4. Though I did found the latest steppe (and others) tweaks extremely beneficial (maxmem, watchdog, performance counter, and sliming of shell32).
I am planning to build my 'real' server soon. May be by then I can compare the full slimming of XP Home with what I have now.
KC
=I do not go all the way in my Windows trimming.=
I think this is the reason. In fully tweaked system as my cMP2 there can be no differences between pro and home.
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/
My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, GA-H55M-UD2H, i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S FAT32, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Live
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