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In Reply to: RE: One wonders if it makes any difference when you trim ... posted by rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com on December 27, 2011 at 08:03:56
Windows components and utilities in XP home. Even with Nlite, things are written in the registry anyway. I believe one cannot manually trim down XP Pro registry to equal that of XP Home. The comparison I did was fair, both OS underwent the same tweaks and optimization. Assuming the trimming effects on both OS are the same, as they have the same structure and files, in the end one may get a better sounding Windows with XP Home. May be more files can trim down in XP Home too. Who knows the outcome? But it is worth exploring. We have installed Windows hundreds of times recently, would you mind doing one more on this one?
One thing I know, both OS use the same shell32.dll and kernel etc. And from what I saw during resource hacking, XP Home is not going to use most of the dialogues and menus etc, therefore perhaps we can delete more things without adversely affecting on XP Home.
Follow Ups:
The "size" of the registry never changes. The space that is required to build the registry at installation seems to remain no matter how much stuff you remove. It can grow but does not seem to shrink.
As it is, the XP Home registry is only about 200 kB smaller than what my folder contains but there is no comparison with what is inside mine and what is inside the XP Home config folder.
In fact, it looks like none of the STEPPE registry mods have been done.
Beyond that there is Mihaylov's suggestions per his screenshots.
I have gone beyond that with lots of trips up and downstairs to see if it still works and, if it does, taking out more.
What was sent does not look much different than what I had after the nLite minimal install. Not to say this basic registry is not a good starting point but there is much work to do to get this into top condition for listening to music.
There is so much extraneous audio and video stuff left in there.
I have found the best approach is to as closely as you can (or dare) have the registry match what .dlls, sys's, and exe's are left in your WINDOWS. Should not have left out the .nls's.
I would be glad to send my config folder as a guide to anyone who would like to see where it is at the moment. I doubt it will work, as is, but I feel certain if you made your config folder look like mine it will work.
Now this is with the understanding that this is a registry based on a FINAL STEPPE machine with no Explorer. All of the files removed per his lists (and a few more). Using the Gigabyte H55 board, PS/2 mouse.
LIST OF REMAINING FILES
config folder
drivers folder
advapi32.dll system32
authz.dll system32
basesvr.dll system32
bootvid.dll system32
c_1252nls system32
c_437.nls system32
comctl32.dll system32
comdlg32.dll system32
cryptdll.dll system32
csrsrv.dll system32
csrss.exe system32
ctype.nls system32
dnsapi.dll system32
FNTCACHE.DAT system32
framebuf.dll system32
gdi32 system32
hal.dll system32
juliaasio.dll system32
kbdus.dll system32
kdcom.dll system32
kernel32.dll system32
l_intl.nls system32
locale.nls system32
lsasrv.dll system32
lsass.exe system32
mpr.dll system32
msasn1.dll system32
msprivs.dll system32
msvcp60.dll system32
msvcrt.dll system32
ncobjapi.dll system32
netapi32.dll system32
ntdll.dll system32
ntdsapi.dll system32
ntoskrnl.exe system32
ole32.dll system32
oleaut32.dll system32
oledlg.dll system32
olepro32.dll system32
rpcrt4.dll system32
samlib.dll system32
samsrv.dll system32
scesrv.dll system32
secur32.dll system32
services.exe system32
setupapi.dll system32
shell32.dll system32
shlwapi.dll system32
shutdown.exe system32
smss.exe system32
sortkey.nls system32
sorttbls.nls system32
svchost.exe system32
sxs.dll system32
umpnpmgr.dll system32
unicode.nls system32
user32.dll system32
userenv.dll system32
vga256.dll system32
vga.dll system32
watchdog.sys system32
win32k.sys system32
winlogon.exe system32
winmm.dll system32
winspool.drv system32
winsrv.dll system32
winsta.dll system32
WLDAP32.DLL system32
ws2_32.dll system32
ws2help.dll system32
acpi driver
atapi driver
classpnp driver
disk driver
dxapi driver
dxg driver
dxgthk driver
ftdisk driver
hidclass driver
hidparse driver
hidusb driver
i8042prt driver
Jula driver
kbdhid driver
ks.sys driver
ksecdd.sys driver
mouclass.sys driver
mountmgr.sys driver
npfs.sys driver
ntfs.sys driver
partmgr.sys driver
pci.sys driver
pciide.sys driver
pciidex.sys driver
vga.sys driver
videoprt.sys driver
volsnap.sys driver
wdmaud.sys driver
wmlib.sys driver
FONTS
8513fix
8514oem
8514sys
arialbd
l_10646
marlett
micross
tahoma
tahomabd
trebuc
trebucbd
vga850
vga860
vga863
vga865
vgafix
vgaoem
vgasys
WINDOWS
fonts folder
system32 folder
win.ini keeps showing back up!
Documents and Settings
Program Files
RECYCLER
System Volume Information
WINDOWS
boot.ini
NTDETECT.COM
ntdlr
There is the problem with drives being different and depending upon how much you have removed or hacked you might not be able to make it work.
I have found when needing to reconfigure the drives within cMP if you will replace the hacked shell32 with the standard one you can make the changes.
Jack,
I LOVE your lateral thinking! Great direction!
One thing you didn't mention was if you tried to get Minlogon to work with XP Home. While the conventional wisdom is that it shouldn't work, the way we do it (with registry & file hacks) might work. If you've got a good backup of your XP Home setup, it's worth a try.
Back in the day, I did quite a few XP Home-> Pro upgrades, mainly to use the PC's on a more sophisticated network. Since we generally AREN'T using domains & such and do little account management, these features are useless to us. BTW, watching those upgrades, they end up replacing a large portion of the Windows files.
In a similar vein, I've stuck with XP Pro version SP1 for my cMP. Unless you are doing advanced networking (and likely just wireless networking) and/or using USB (as I remember, there was significant upgrading of USB functionality with SP2), then SP1 should result in a smaller and likely cleaner (and hopefully better sounding) Windows. But honestly, I've never compared.
It's funny... with the development of cPlay halted, one might think cMP is in it's twilight. But with all the Windows-hacking that's being developed, it's like a new and better setup all over again! While I don't think we'll be able to get it down to the same footprint as a clean Linex-based player (or firmware), the flexibility of being able to use a wide variety of hardware (MoBos, processors, soundcards, HDDs/SSDs, etc) and configurations (networked, headless, stock, etc) due to the flexibility of Windows and availability of drivers is just too beneficial to pass up!
Again, THANKS! And also, belated thanks to all the slimming Windows pioneers & brave beta-testers!
Greg in Mississippi
P.S. I should put the latest evolution of my Extreme Juli@-modded digital section into the system today for break-in and audition. It features very tightly-coupled power-bypassing upgrades and a combination of organic-polymer (Oscon-type, but not all Oscon-branded), low-inductance high-value ceramic (on the deep-digital processing chips ONLY) and SMD film capacitors (PPS film, also low-inductance/high-bandwidth). I'll post an update in the 'Further Juli@ Follies' sub-thread in the next several days.
Next steps after this one are to try undervolting (especially the 3.3v rail) and clock upgrades (including a try at replacing the 24.576Mhz clock with a low-jitter 49.152Mhz)!
Everything matters!
if you tried to get Minlogon to work with XP Home
I suspect minlogon will work fine with XP Home, it's AWE that is available only in XP Pro. (I find the sound in my system better with the feature disabled.)
Unless you are doing advanced networking (and likely just wireless networking) and/or using USB
Networking should also be fine in that as much as possible is switched off. The USB audio side I can't comment on but proprietary drivers typically by-pass the MS stuff anyway.
I look forward to Jack's report - as you say, it's a clever idea.
I admire your insight on the use of SP1. Simple is the best for CMP. I will try to compare the sonic differences between service packs and w/o it.
Can't wait to see your development on Juli@ modifications. Because I'm building a second machine using Juli@ and network. I'm an eager audience waiting for your update.
In addition, I've just bought a few cheap ESI MAYA44 @$22USD each. I want to use them as alternative to Juli@, as I believe they share similar digital section.
Now to find an old copy of the thing laying around the office!
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