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In Reply to: RE: I respectfully disagree posted by 6AS7_6SN7 on October 07, 2010 at 01:31:07
I know about Fletcher-Monsun, this is not what I was talking about. I **was** talking about how the ear perceives distortion as a coloration, for example distortions of only 1/100th of a percent of the 5th, 7th and 9 th harmonics are perceived as brightness, despite the frequency response of an amp with such distortion as being otherwise flat.
The same is true of low-ordered harmonics will make the amp sound 'warm' or 'full', perhaps even bloated in the bass, despite flat frequency response.
Some CD players can exhibit so much inharmonic distortions that no amount of turning down the treble control can tame their brightness.
Do you understand now my point??
Follow Ups:
But I prefer to stick to audio science.
My impression is that you seem to escape any meaningful technical discussion by never making clear your points.
You look too often so vague, so far away from common technical vocabulary, always trying to referring to something else (that is not the topic of the matter under scrutiny).
I won't follow you on this terrain anymore.
If you want to positively contribute to this forum discussion please stick to the points at hand, don't ever assert: "low-ordered harmonics will make the amp sound 'warm' or 'full', perhaps even bloated in the bass, despite flat frequency response".
This is basically nonsense as long as you do not put numbers there.
And again, what the hell your statement "some CD players can exhibit so much inharmonic distortions" has to do with 'power paradigm high impedance"?
Which CD models?
Who is the manufacturer to be blamed?
But who was ever asking your opinion on CD players?
Who cares?
In my experience CD players are excellent audio sources.
My point is clear: masked advertisement maybe good for you but it is extremely disturbing for me.
Best Regards
Luca
ecc230
I am assuming that it has something to do with language.
Had you been following along, then I doubt you would have said this:
And again, what the hell your statement "some CD players can exhibit so much inharmonic distortions" has to do with 'power paradigm high impedance"?
So I am assuming that either you did not read something, or read it and misinterpreted it based on a misunderstanding of the language.
To flesh things out a little, General Electric did a study in the 1960s, wherein they found that humans find odd-ordered harmonics to be objectionable, and very small amounts, less than 0.1% . By contrast, the same study showed that humans may not even notice lower ordered harmonics (2nd,3rd, 4th) until they get over 30%! The former is easy to demonstrate with a sine/square generator, an amp, a speaker and a VU meter.
If you want to positively contribute to this forum discussion please stick to the points at hand, don't ever assert: "low-ordered harmonics will make the amp sound 'warm' or 'full', perhaps even bloated in the bass, despite flat frequency response".
I *thought* this was common knowledge, and germane to the conversation- I refer you to Norman Crowhurst.
What a pity. It's not a language problem, it's you that are likely running out of meaningful argumets for defending the supposed advantages of 'power paradigm/zero feedback'.
As in your recent 'clash' with Tre' you escape again and again the technical points and start referring to something else.
As far as the argument "General Electric did a study in the 1960s, wherein they found that humans find odd-ordered harmonics to be objectionable, and very small amounts, less than 0.1%" is concerned, please re-publish some relevant excerpt of this 'unknown/unpublished' study on this (or your site), so that we can all check what the study assumptions were at the time (istead of relying on your statements only).
And as odd ordered harmonics seems so dangerous according to this GE study I will be glad to see the measured distortions of your audio products, let's say at 12 volt peak across ESL loading, 330 Hz, just to see if the odd-ordered harmonics fall below 0.1% as you consider so much essential.
Best Regards
Luca
ecc230
Luca, Tre and I figured it out even if you didn't.
Now, since you don't believe me, you now have to prove me wrong. This is an easy test. Get a sine/square generator, an amp (any functioning amp will do) a speaker and a VU meter.
Set the generator for sine, at 0 VU and listen to the result through the speaker. Now cover up the meter. Turn the volume down, set for square wave and bring up the volume until it sounds as loud as before. Now observe the meter. You will see that it is a good ways down from the sine wave- probably about 20-25db.
This is because we use odd ordered harmonics to see how loud a sound is. A square wave is all odd orders. So naturally it sounds a lot louder than a sine wave.
The fact of the matter is I have not been changing the subject- instead I get the sense that you are actively trying to not understand. But you need to perform the test above!
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