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In Reply to: I have never meant to make the design to sound like a compromise... posted by Rich Brkich on October 20, 2004 at 19:21:44:
"Holy crap!!! He has built the ideal output tranformer.
I know, it's because I think it's portrayed or described in a simplistic manner, as I said before, the converter is really only part of a number of transformers that make up a circuit, an is no way configured or coupled like a output transformer to the circuit and the converter operates at a fixed frequency of 250Kh, and cannot operate at audio frequencies, there is just no way of mistaking this thing for a output transformer.
It's a perfect something but not a output transformer :)
Yeah, you missed one, it's also very plain looking ( that's polite English for kinda ugly )
This is not an amp someone buys on impulse :)
Alan, you are looking too closely or you think I am focusing in on the inner details of the impedance converter circuit. Think about what the amp does at a higher level.... what does the speaker see??? what does the push pull amplifer section of the amp see??
Understanding the details of the circuit is one thing... but you are missing conceptually what the very clever David Berning impedance convertor circuit does. While is does not use conventional output transformer technology (i.e a core of magenetic material wraped with coils, with a primary and secondary winding that has a speaker connected on one end and output tubes on the other side), it essentially emulates what a conventional output transformer does, but in a *much* better manner.
A OTL (in the spirit of the term that is most well understood by audio geeks) has no such impedance converting device between the output tubes and the speakers... i.e. what are more specifically called direct coupled OTLs... the tubes directly drive the load. Thing is though, you will very rarely ever see a audiophile use the term direct coupled OTL becuase is is essentailly assumed by defiention that what he/she means. I think calling other types of amplifer designs OTLs does a diservice to the audiophile public becuase they MAY very well think they are getting/seeing/reading about a direct coupled OTL when they are not.
"what does the speaker see??? what does the push pull amplifer section of the amp see?? "
the speaker “sees” the tube transfer characteristics and the tubes “see” the speaker’s dynamic characteristics.
Just at it would in any direct coupled OTL.
No amount of emulation of any output transformer can do that :)
"I think calling other types of amplifer designs OTLs does a diservice to the audiophile public becuase they MAY very well think they are getting/seeing/reading about a direct coupled OTL when they are not."
Are all production cars internal combustion, with either a automatic or manual transmission, are all TV's vacuum tube, you need to be blasted into space by big rockets? At one time or another, the answers to all these questions would have been yes but not anymore.
Electric powered cars are not cars?
Plasma TV's are not TV's
Flying a plane into space is not space travel?
By not letting the audiophile public know that they have choices over what was conventional with the same results, is really the disservice.
and he is checking out a SUV..,
Salesman comes up and say "Can I help you"
Customer says, "Yeah, I'm looking to ge one of these SUVs. This one here has a gas engine in it right? I'm not looking for a deisel."
Saleman says "Yep, got a V6 gas engine in there."
The customer thinks, "great < I got a fiar deal here, lets get it!, and makes the deal for the truck there on the lot. He come back next monday, picks up the SUV and drives her home. Being a curious guy (thinks he knows a thing or two about cars & thier design), the guy pops the hood and takes a look at the engine... he aslo takes a look undearneath the car and grumbles out loud "What the *****?" Turns out the customer's new SUV is a hybird Gas electric vehicle.... you don't have to plug in, and runs and drives just like a regular gas SUV... heck, gets even better gas milage.. "its better" the saleman and company says to the upset customer "look how more efficent it... the way the motors and such work you save on brakes, etc etc."... "No matter", the customer says, "you folks decived me becuase you didn't tell me upfront that I wasn't getting the old fashioned gasoline drivetrain that I originally asked for!"
Moral of the story, while the gas -electric hybrid vehicle may drive, ride, brake, handle just like a old fashioned gasoline engine vehicle, it does not make it one.
Retailer & Audio Asylum Industry Liaison
Okay, but the customer could just as easily have gone home and popped the bonnet and said %&^^ing shit, look at this amazing technology, it gets better gas mileage, it's better for the environment, it's faster than the regular gas only model, requires less maintenance, calls the salesman and thanks him and his company for having such a SUV, "it's certainly a great vehicle, you should tell more people about it" :)
We should have a vote on which scenario is most likely :)
Man, where would the rest of the world be if it was not for newer ways of doing things, still be watching black and white TV's, driving undependable gas guzzlers?
"Okay, but the customer could just as easily have gone home and popped the bonnet and said %&^^ing shit, look at this amazing technology, it gets better gas mileage, it's better for the environment, it's faster than the regular gas only model, requires less maintenance, calls the salesman and thanks him and his company for having such a SUV, "it's certainly a great vehicle, you should tell more people about it" :)"
You are of course, correct and indirectly make my point. Since this is different tehcnology, call it and market it as something different.... the interaction could have been:
Customer: "So is this one of those newfangled gasoline electric hybrids???"
Salesman: Yep! The best that technology currenty has to offer... the performance like that of a gasoline engine with better enconomy and better for the environment... you see the gas engine provides extra power for the batteries and the electric drive motors when needed... works seemlessly and drives and rides like a regular SUV. Now if you want, we also have the old fashioned gasoline engine driven SUVs as well..."
So now the customer can make an informed desicsion... maybe he is an old fashioned guy, likes to work on his own cars and just wants an old fashioned gasoline engine SUV. OR, maybe he is a guy excited by this new technology and a SUV that gives him the utlility of such a vehicle with better economy/efficency.
Retailer & Audio Asylum Industry Liaison
Oh, don't get us wrong, we know Output transformer less is the least of what ZH technology is, our starting point.
Yes, you are kind of right, but I don't see a New amp technology forum and it would be kind of boring for the Berning guys anyway :)!
The real big problem is the CIRCUS that high end audio has become, a audiophile cannot tell between magic and science anymore, fundamentally what is correct, is getting grayer and grayer.
It is now very difficult to differentiate yourself with a break true technology to some voodoo spell hybrid lie and because people cannot understand the ZH technology, it's just easy for us to say OTL.
I can go on about this industry but I a sure you know what I mean.
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